How many instruments? Options

[Deborah]

I would be disappointed if my child was grade 8 on three wind instruments but fairly average at piano. I think it is better to dedicate ones time to the principal instrument and keyboard. Any time taken away from improving keyboard skills is a huge waste of time.

How do you define "fairly average at piano"?

I came to piano comparatively late: I'd already passed Grade VI clarinet, and it was an uphill struggle for many years, dealing with two different clefs (one of which was far less familiar), two staves, hands doing completely different things, playing more than one note at a time in each hand, pedalling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I can fully understand why someone can reach a reasonably advanced level on a wind instrument but have less ability on a keyboard instrument. Clarinet is still my principal instrument, but the gap between clarinet and piano feels smaller now.

Am I alone in wondering if the hypothetical child with Grade VIII on three wind instruments but a fairly average ability on piano has actually been wasting their time pursuing Grade VIIIs two and three when they could have been dedicating themselves to keyboard and improving their keyboard skills? Or perhaps they're just remembering that music is there to be enjoyed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[FullofWind]

I would be disappointed if my child was grade 8 on three wind instruments but fairly average at piano. I think it is better to dedicate ones time to the principal instrument and keyboard. Any time taken away from improving keyboard skills is a huge waste of time.

How do you define "fairly average at piano"?

I came to piano comparatively late: I'd already passed Grade VI clarinet, and it was an uphill struggle for many years, dealing with two different clefs (one of which was far less familiar), two staves, hands doing completely different things, playing more than one note at a time in each hand, pedalling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I can fully understand why someone can reach a reasonably advanced level on a wind instrument but have less ability on a keyboard instrument. Clarinet is still my principal instrument, but the gap between clarinet and piano feels smaller now.

Am I alone in wondering if the hypothetical child with Grade VIII on three wind instruments but a fairly average ability on piano has actually been wasting their time pursuing Grade VIIIs two and three when they could have been dedicating themselves to keyboard and improving their keyboard skills? Or perhaps they're just remembering that music is there to be enjoyed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

This is being taken out of context again. The point was applications to conservatoires. It would be foolish to study French, Latin and Geography at A'level and then try and get onto a medical degree!

[notmusimum]

I would be disappointed if my child was grade 8 on three wind instruments but fairly average at piano. I think it is better to dedicate ones time to the principal instrument and keyboard. Any time taken away from improving keyboard skills is a huge waste of time.

How do you define "fairly average at piano"?

I came to piano comparatively late: I'd already passed Grade VI clarinet, and it was an uphill struggle for many years, dealing with two different clefs (one of which was far less familiar), two staves, hands doing completely different things, playing more than one note at a time in each hand, pedalling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) I can fully understand why someone can reach a reasonably advanced level on a wind instrument but have less ability on a keyboard instrument. Clarinet is still my principal instrument, but the gap between clarinet and piano feels smaller now.

Am I alone in wondering if the hypothetical child with Grade VIII on three wind instruments but a fairly average ability on piano has actually been wasting their time pursuing Grade VIIIs two and three when they could have been dedicating themselves to keyboard and improving their keyboard skills? Or perhaps they're just remembering that music is there to be enjoyed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I recognise that child (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Piano is more difficult if someone is a high level on three other instruments then they are not going to have the same time to spend on piano. They will probably be out all the time developing their musicality by playing in ensembles, orchestras and pit bands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I don't think Conservatoires are that bothered anymore about keyboard skills (if they ever have been), there was no mention of them at either of the open days we've attended. At least not when the primary instrument is single line.

[barncottagecat]

It had never occurred to me that one could apply to conservatoires on various instruments and see what came up - Doh! But I have absolutely no idea how on earth children manage to cope with learning four instruments and doing GCSEs, ###### and A levels without having nervous breakdowns - let alone the parents! My daughter is very serious about her violin, moderately interested in the piano, and with her school work on top of that, there's no time for anything else - and that's with just two instruments.

I'd worry that if she was playing the guitar and the marimba too ( she's fairly keen to have a go), she'd lose focus and wouldn't reach the required standard for conservatoire (should she want to do that) on anything....

That's not to say that people shouldn't be multi-instrumentalists if they can fit it all in! - very useful indeed if you want a portfolio career. friend's daughter has now graduated as a first study violinist, and has a career playing that in a duo and a quartet, singing with several bands, she also plays sax, and was playing the double bass on "the voice" a couple of weeks ago!

[Deborah]

This is being taken out of context again. The point was applications to conservatoires. It would be foolish to study French, Latin and Geography at A'level and then try and get onto a medical degree!

Any more foolish than struggling to learn piano when one's heart is set on being a wind specialist? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Chris H]

I'm not too sure where piano comes into this - my son only had Grade 4 piano when he was auditioning for conservatoire, and none of the conservatoires were interested in either keyboard skills or his second study instrument.

[andante]

What about people that combine woodwind and brass, is that a big no no? I've heard that it doesn't work because of the different embouchures, but surely that cold be an issue with different woodwind embouchures too? And it seem to be fairly accepted to play all brass instruments, although from our experience it is important to have a specialist teacher for brass too. Tuba embouchure is quite different from that needed for smaller brass mouthpieces.

[STRINGMUM]

"I'm not too sure where piano comes into this - my son only had Grade 4 piano when he was auditioning for conservatoire, and none of the conservatoires were interested in either keyboard skills or his second study instrument."

It was the same for my son.

We did look into some abroad and they asked for piano as a second study for audition.
If anyone wants to "spread their wings" a little further it's worth checking the different requirements.

[notmusimum]

I'd worry that if she was playing the guitar and the marimba too ( she's fairly keen to have a go), she'd lose focus and wouldn't reach the required standard for conservatoire (should she want to do that) on anything....

If I could turn the clock back and knew what I know now.....

If I was doing this again then I'd strongly suggest to the child they had one strong instrument, perhaps a second but related study and some piano. When daughter started out we didn't have a clue what we were doing. Whilst she said at 10 she wanted to be a musician and I read enough to realise some piano skills might be needed we've largely gone with what she wanted to do. It wasn't a desire that we took too seriouslyand maybe that's why it's still what she wants now. It's so hard to know what's right with these things particularly as it will be personal to the child.

[andante]

I'm not sure there is a right and wrong. You cannot know how serious a child is at 10, and it doesn't seem to matter too much if they make the decision that they are serious much later as others on here have proved.

[FullofWind]

Every junior conservatoire and specialist school we have approached have all strongly encouraged keyboard skills. My son is currently composing every spare minute he has and he is held back by his limited level on piano - i need to look into if Sibelius lets one hum down a microphone to solve this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I would also avoid a teacher now who couldn't bash out a half decent accompaniment - unless the teacher was amazing - as we have come up against problems preparing for exams and competitions. Hiring an accompanist for one day is not enough for my son as he needs at least 2-3 sessions with the accompaniment.

[barry-clari]

This is being taken out of context again. The point was applications to conservatoires. It would be foolish to study French, Latin and Geography at A'level and then try and get onto a medical degree!

Any more foolish than struggling to learn piano when one's heart is set on being a wind specialist? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As long as you satisfy the keyboard criteria, it doesn't matter one jot. Wholeheartedly agree with Deborah (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clarinet.gif)

[sbhoa]

Every junior conservatoire and specialist school we have approached have all strongly encouraged keyboard skills. My son is currently composing every spare minute he has and he is held back by his limited level on piano - i need to look into if Sibelius lets one hum down a microphone to solve this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I would also avoid a teacher now who couldn't bash out a half decent accompaniment - unless the teacher was amazing - as we have come up against problems preparing for exams and competitions. Hiring an accompanist for one day is not enough for my son as he needs at least 2-3 sessions with the accompaniment.

My clarinet teacher is a decent pianist and good accompanist but I'm now playing more things with accompaniments that are too difficult or too time consuming for her. At the beginning of this year I started to have a monthly session with a professional accompanist (with the full support of my teacher). My teacher keeps a check on when I'm going to see my accompanist and will suggest things to work on.
It's well worth doing if you are able and a good accompanist will be able to work with players at whatever level they are. It's good for me at grade6/7 level to get another musical perspective and I know enough about my own playing to be able to say if I'm not yet able to act on suggestions.
I've realised that so far I've been a little lazy and allowed my accompanist to take the lead when taking the lead is a skill I know I need to work on. I'll be discussing this in my next session.

[notmusimum]

Every junior conservatoire and specialist school we have approached have all strongly encouraged keyboard skills. My son is currently composing every spare minute he has and he is held back by his limited level on piano - i need to look into if Sibelius lets one hum down a microphone to solve this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I would also avoid a teacher now who couldn't bash out a half decent accompaniment - unless the teacher was amazing - as we have come up against problems preparing for exams and competitions. Hiring an accompanist for one day is not enough for my son as he needs at least 2-3 sessions with the accompaniment.

This would not be a strong consideration in a teacher for us. I prefer teachers who don't choose to play piano in the lesson.

Daughter recently had a consultation lesson and I would never have dreamed of asking if the person had keyboard skills (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . Infact I have heard tales of one well respected musician who actually learnt piano whilst at conservatoire. Hasn't stopped them being head of department at a conservatoire themselves and they are one of the best players of their instrument (in my opinion).

It's not entirely true that all JD's want/promote strong piano skills. You could chase yourself round in circles trying to gather all the possible skills that could be needed to be a musician. Which is one of the reasons why you can't compare two musicians even on the same instrument as the skill set will be very different.

I would like my daughter to be more of a pianist than she is but it has never really been her thing so we just struggle on in the hope one day there will be more time and enthusiasm.

I agree with Sbhoa having seperate lessons working with an accompanist is a good thing to do if you want a pianist in the lesson.

[TSax]

What about people that combine woodwind and brass, is that a big no no? I've heard that it doesn't work because of the different embouchures, but surely that cold be an issue with different woodwind embouchures too? And it seem to be fairly accepted to play all brass instruments, although from our experience it is important to have a specialist teacher for brass too. Tuba embouchure is quite different from that needed for smaller brass mouthpieces.

It's highly uncommon, but not impossible to double woodwind and brass.

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