Could the teacher's expectations be too high? Options

[FullofWind]

Teachers! Have you ever misjudged a students ability and given them pieces that have proven beyond their capabilities and if a parent has suggested this to be the case, how would you react? I'm definitely not trying to be provocative but I'm concerned my son has been given pieces which are beyond his capability for an audition which is five months away. Five months may seem a long time but his summer holiday is filled with residential courses and a very long instrument-free vacation. I have explained this to the teacher, who will not be teaching him from the end of June (long story, not relevant and all very amicable), but he seems to think this is plenty time. The pieces will be the most advanced pieces he's ever played. Should I keep a couple of easier pieces ticking over in case it will prove too much? Obviously I will make sure he puts in as much practice as possible and follow the teachers advice.

[sbhoa]

Yes, I have sometimes given student things that prove to be too difficult just yet.
Occasionally it's just that they are not really ready and sometimes it's that the time is wrong because of life being too busy for giving something especially challenging enough attention.
I usually notice for myself when practice strategies I've suggested haven't helped.
Maybe it need assessing with a couple of lessons still to go to see whether he is at the point where he fully understands how to approach continued practice without support.

[maggiemay]

Yes, I'd agree with the thought that it's often just a matter of bad timing. A slightly more tricky assignment combined with a busy or preoccupied week can be bad news. Help given in lesson can be lost, given a couple of days gap, and then the job seems that much more difficult.

[notmusimum]

One of daughters teachers regularly gives her things that are slightly beyond her she is usually able to play them with some work.

I think giving too easy pieces would worry me more as the child wouldn't be developing as much as they could. If they attempt to learn harder things then it makes things slightly lower in level easier.

[CJB]

I've occaisionally given a pupil something that is been beyond their capabilities and made slower progress than I'd anticipated. Usually this has become obvious after a couple of weeks. I've usually selected the piece because of a specific technical difficulty or feature I want that pupil to work on. If I've really misjudged it I'll work on the specific objective then move swiftly onto something else, returning to the harder piece at a later date.

5 months is a heck of a long time to be working on a single piece. Typically I try to have most pupils learning 2 contrasting pieces, usually at different stages of preparation. I also encourage them to end each practise session by playing a piece they like. If your son did something similar that would be a fairly pain free way of keeping other pieces ticking over. There is plenty of time if it doesn't work out to select a change of piece maybe a few weeks before the audition. You've said that your son is stopping lessons with teacher in a month's time. Will he be starting with a new teacher in the autumn? If so that would be an obvious time to consider options about what to play.

[FullofWind]

I've occaisionally given a pupil something that is been beyond their capabilities and made slower progress than I'd anticipated. Usually this has become obvious after a couple of weeks. I've usually selected the piece because of a specific technical difficulty or feature I want that pupil to work on. If I've really misjudged it I'll work on the specific objective then move swiftly onto something else, returning to the harder piece at a later date.

5 months is a heck of a long time to be working on a single piece. Typically I try to have most pupils learning 2 contrasting pieces, usually at different stages of preparation. I also encourage them to end each practise session by playing a piece they like. If your son did something similar that would be a fairly pain free way of keeping other pieces ticking over. There is plenty of time if it doesn't work out to select a change of piece maybe a few weeks before the audition. You've said that your son is stopping lessons with teacher in a month's time. Will he be starting with a new teacher in the autumn? If so that would be an obvious time to consider options about what to play.

He is starting two new hard pieces and usually has 2-3 studies on the go as well as lots of scale techniques. The problem that we have is that his new teacher will see him sometime in September and his audition is October 8th! It's probably me just panicking! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[andante]

Deleted because Windy got there first!

[Roseau]

5 months is a heck of a long time to be working on a single piece.

What level is your son playing it? And how long is the piece? (Five months doesn't seem an unreasonable length of time for a whole sonata, for example).

[FullofWind]

5 months is a heck of a long time to be working on a single piece.

What level is your son playing it? And how long is the piece? (Five months doesn't seem an unreasonable length of time for a whole sonata, for example).

I don't know his exact level as I don't have a lot of communication with his teacher and his practice is usually done at school because the neighbours would not be pleased! But, he is definitely beyond grade 6, can play most grade 7 repertoire that is put in front of him but it takes him at least a term to make it sound good although it's not always perfect, well not in the teacher's mind but it sounds pretty good to me. More a case of 70% getting it right and good first time after a terms practice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The two audition pieces are grade 8 and one is definitely harder than the other. I think he will manage the easier of the two but I'm not convinced it will sound musical, if you know what I mean. The other piece is very long and in three clefs and two of these clefs he's very weak on due to lack of practice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

[Roseau]

can play most grade 7 repertoire that is put in front of him but it takes him at least a term to make it sound good although it's not always perfect, well not in the teacher's mind but it sounds pretty good to me. More a case of 70% getting it right and good first time after a terms practice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The two audition pieces are grade 8 and one is definitely harder than the other. I think he will manage the easier of the two but I'm not convinced it will sound musical, if you know what I mean. The other piece is very long and in three clefs and two of these clefs he's very weak on due to lack of practice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

I think as you move up you do spend longer perfecting pieces - my teacher expects me to get notes and rhythms in place at home (which usually happens in a matter of weeks) and then I spend months working on details.

Perhaps the teacher is worried your son will get bored as (if I have read correctly) he will be going for over two months with no lesson. I know you said part of this was going to be musicless but maybe the teacher thought he could take the music with him (even though he doesn't have the instrument) and use the time to get to grips with reading the unfamiliar clefs.

[Seer_Green]

It's always a tricky balance to stike; we have to push pupils otherwise they'd remain static, but I think we'd all agree, as teachers, we've got it wrong on occasion.

[Seer_Green]

But, he is definitely beyond grade 6, can play most grade 7 repertoire that is put in front of him but it takes him at least a term to make it sound good although it's not always perfect, well not in the teacher's mind but it sounds pretty good to me.

You say he can play most Grade 7 repertoire, but it takes him a term to make it sound good - do you mean he can make a fair attempt at sight-reading repertoire of that level, but that it then takes a term to actually 'learn' it?

I was working with an adult piano pupil earlier. She's doing Grade 1 this session. I'd given her a new piece, slightly less than Grade 1 level. She was able to play it through with it all reasonably correct on a first attempt. A couple of minutes was spent checking a few bits and a few more minutes practising them. Within about 15 the piece was learnt, sent away for practising and I'm sure will be 'signed-off' as finished next week. To my mind, this is a good example of someone who is 'at' that 'standard'. OK, everyone learns at a different pace, but if I'd given it to her and she'd had to spend weeks learning it, I'd be worried it was really beyond her level. It had enough challenges to require a bit of thought and work, but it was easily accomplished in a short period of time. I accept that at the higher grades, the results aren't going to be so swift, but I still feel that the same applies.

[FullofWind]

Edit

[jenny]

My pupils are all working towards our next concert in July and in choosing suitable pieces for them all - 2 solo pieces and a duet - I always try to find pieces that are challenging for them, so slightly harder than anything they've played before. They almost always rise to the challenge, but I have had the occasional one who just doesn't manage it so then we go back to something a bit easier.
I find that they're very motivated by being stretched a bit and their parents are very pleased when it comes to the concert!

[RoseRodent]

You say the pieces are for an audition, maybe the teacher feels that pieces without those technical demands would not be sufficient for the audition standard? If you are trying to differentiate yourself from every other candidate you have to up your game. Unless the audition is for something that is so absurdly within his comfort zone that it's practically impossible he wouldn't get in (which begs the question why go for it if there is no learning to be had from it) then it's possible the teacher has chosen with the demands of the audition in mind rather than with the pupil's current standard and progress uppermost.

To try to explain what I mean, if someone came to me saying they need to sit grade 8 in October then I'm going to have to give them grade 8 pieces, as giving them grade 7 isn't going to cut it. If I thought it was an impossible goal I'd point that out, if I thought it was ambitious I'd point that out too, but if that's the standard then that's the standard, those are the pieces he'd have to have.