Specialist Music schools Options

[Misti]

To be honest, you need 5 GCSEs. That'll get you into college to do A Levels and then university - although you might need a good reason for 'only' doing 5. A friend of mine with 5 was home educated, and so did the minimum she needed. An alternative is not to bother with GCSEs and do the IB, which is what another couple of friends of mine did (one was home educated til 16, the other had spent her entire teenager years in hospital being treated for anorexia).

I agree with the difficulty in making decisions, though. At my school no child was allowed to do more than 9, so once the compulsary English, Eng Lit, Maths, Language and Double Science was taken out, plus one option devoted to DT of some description, you only got to pick 2 subjects. In the long term it makes little difference though, whether you do RE or History, Drama or Art. For most humanties subjects the pre-requisites are an open book.

The only one to watch is that your child doesn't drop all languages. A suprising number of universities have snuck in a requirement for a language GCSE since it stopped being compulsary to take one.

[Listener]

To be honest, you need 5 GCSEs. That'll get you into college to do A Levels and then university - although you might need a good reason for 'only' doing 5. A friend of mine with 5 was home educated, and so did the minimum she needed. An alternative is not to bother with GCSEs and do the IB, which is what another couple of friends of mine did (one was home educated til 16, the other had spent her entire teenager years in hospital being treated for anorexia).

I agree with the difficulty in making decisions, though. At my school no child was allowed to do more than 9, so once the compulsary English, Eng Lit, Maths, Language and Double Science was taken out, plus one option devoted to DT of some description, you only got to pick 2 subjects. In the long term it makes little difference though, whether you do RE or History, Drama or Art. For most humanties subjects the pre-requisites are an open book.

The only one to watch is that your child doesn't drop all languages. A suprising number of universities have snuck in a requirement for a language GCSE since it stopped being compulsary to take one.

That's interesting Misti. Do you see GCSEs as just pieces of paper, rather than allowing you to continue to study a subject? I think I might have an extreme view and need to consider moderating it (not that I'm in a position to ruin anyone's life, but it's good to keep an open mind)

[sbhoa]

To be honest, you need 5 GCSEs. That'll get you into college to do A Levels and then university - although you might need a good reason for 'only' doing 5. A friend of mine with 5 was home educated, and so did the minimum she needed. An alternative is not to bother with GCSEs and do the IB, which is what another couple of friends of mine did (one was home educated til 16, the other had spent her entire teenager years in hospital being treated for anorexia).

I agree with the difficulty in making decisions, though. At my school no child was allowed to do more than 9, so once the compulsary English, Eng Lit, Maths, Language and Double Science was taken out, plus one option devoted to DT of some description, you only got to pick 2 subjects. In the long term it makes little difference though, whether you do RE or History, Drama or Art. For most humanties subjects the pre-requisites are an open book.

The only one to watch is that your child doesn't drop all languages. A suprising number of universities have snuck in a requirement for a language GCSE since it stopped being compulsary to take one.

That's interesting Misti. Do you see GCSEs as just pieces of paper, rather than allowing you to continue to study a subject? I think I might have an extreme view and need to consider moderating it (not that I'm in a position to ruin anyone's life, but it's good to keep an open mind)

You don't need GCSE to study a subject at a higher level. One of my nieces did a language A level from scratch and there are other A level subjects where some colleges at least don't demand a prior GCSE.

[Chris H]

They certainly wouldn't let you do a language A level from scratch at my sons' school. In fact they prefer you to have a B or preferably an A at GCSE because there is a jump
from GCSE to A level.

[Listener]

Both myself and OH never had something to fallback, it was always do or die! I think daughter chose the same style, which could be reason for her to chose music over anything.

She appears to be so excited to start a new life in Secondary specialist school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The fallback is my idea - son seems intent on burning his bridges (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

My feelings are increasingly that specialist music schools are perfect for those that know from a young age that music will be their future, and have the determination to make that happen.
I have great admiration for those children.
For a child undecided on their future , is a a traditional school better- no matter how talented they may be ?

It is hard to know if music is going to be a constant or will fall away to be replaced by something else. Your decision might depend on what your alternatives are. You asked in the first message whether it was still possible for a child to do "really well" in their academic studies, suggesting your alternatives are high quality. Answers say yes children can, but not always. The decision might also depend on whether you or your child are going to be haunted by 'what if?' I get the feeling your child is extremely talented but not at this stage focused on a career in music... which might or might not change.

In practical terms it is possible to get an idea of how a school views academic subjects by asking to see the GCSE advice/choice information (as well as data on numbers of GCSEs taken and results, which are usually more easily obtained). It's not unreasonable to ask. Look for whether the school is ticking boxes and getting them through the exams, or teaching them skills and the subject. Less can be more in this respect.

[Misti]

With regard to the queries about where I got the "5 GCSEs" from, I wrote a lovely long explanation a few days, but then accidentally closed the page before posting it. I've only just got around to thinking that I should re-write it!

With all the FE college I have encountered, the entrance requirements for doing A Level or similar level courses is 4-5 GCSEs at grade C+. I think it would be hard to get very far in Further/Higher education without having GCSEs in English, Maths, and a Science; although obviously there are access courses, so this is not cut and dry. As a young person, getting a job without having GCSEs in Maths and English (preferably at C+), can be a real challenge.

Do GCSEs allow you to continue studying a subject? Are they needed to progress to A Level study? Are they just pieces of paper? These are tricky questions, and rather context specific.

To take the previously used example of A Level languages. I understand why a good (B+ or even A+) grade might be the requirement at some 6th forms. The level of language competancy required for a C grade at GCSE is not high, and some pupils will have taken the GCSE after just 1 or 2 years learning the language. At my school, a GCSE in a modern language was taken after 5 years of having 3 hours of lessons a week: So the step up to the IB Higher Level (the course I took) was much less than for those who had only done the language for 2 years, and 2 hours a week. This was regardless of the fact that we all had A grades on out GCSE language certificate.

My own college also allowed students to start A Level Spanish, Portuguese and Russian without any prior knowledge of the language (because prospective candidates might not have had the chance to learn them before). Those taking this option took a GCSE after 9 months, AS modules after 15 months, and A2 modules after 18-24 months. So it could be argued that the GCSE was still a pre-requisite, but I think it was more of a progress check. It was also not an option open to anyone without previous demonstrated language ability (i.e. good GCSE in another modern language).

In general though, I do not think that GCSEs are required to study a specific subject further, any more than very specific A Levels are always required to study certain subjects at University. I've been told that some universities don't really like their law students to have done A Level law, for example, because it tends to result in them having an overly simplistic attitude to issues they will consider in more depth as undergraduates. Similarly, I got on to an engineering course without having done physics (even at GCSE), on the grounds that my other subjects and grades indicated I'd be able to pick what I needed to know up, as we went along.

GCSEs are a passport, a set of letters that qualify to you do things later, but aren't even essential for that (there are other options). The skills you aquire during GCSEs are important, and are the real value that you take away, not the subject knowledge. I recently completed a 1 day training course for work, where we were told how seriously we should take it "because it was a real qualification, acredited to Level 2 on the National Qualification Framework". The material could have been covered in half a day, yet this course is worth as much as a GCSE at Grade G-D. I think that helps put the value of GCSEs in the long term into perspective. They are critically important when you are 16, to move onto the next steps. They continue to be important when you are 17/18, if you choose to study at University, because the universities will look at the grades. Once you finish University they cease to be significant - mine get two words on my CV now (GCSEs-9A*s), and if I wasn't still a bit proud of the results, I don't think they'd get even that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think another question was intended though, which was "Is it bad for students to drop subjects at 14", which I can't really answer. My feeling is that with the skills from the other GCSEs, it is possible to anyone to learn anything they want at a basic level, without sitting through lessons in it. I guess it depends on how important you believe everyone having a core body of knowledge is. Does it matter if a child never learns about history between 1900-1980 (my entire GCSE History course focused solely on this period)? I'm constantly horrified by the scientific illiteracy within the general population, but that just reflects my own bias! I'm sure music teachers don't like the thought of how musically illiterate the population is, either! At the end of the day, we no longer live in a Rennaisance period where it is possible to learn everything in the core body of knowledge that makes you well educated; and rightly our education system focuses on developing skills and techniques, not knowledge.

So when I wrote my original post, I was referring to the bits of paper that are strictly necessary to go forward, and not addressing this issue at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) 5 GCSEs across a spectrum of subjects*, will give the basics to equip for future study of anything else.

*The spectrum bit here is still important: Its why I think the English Bac is a fairly good idea!

[andante]

Some school ask for more than 5 and expect them to be As and Bs to admit them to the sixth form.

will usually be expected to have achieved a minimum of 6 GCSEs at grades A*-B, including Mathematics and English with a minimum average points score of 48 from their best 6 subjects. Students should preferably have achieved A* or A in the subjects they wish to study at A level, but with a minimum of grade B.

(Taken form the 6th form prospectus)

[Listener]

Fantastically thoughtful reply, Misti

[sunil]

Thank you Misti, there is no Like or Thank button in the forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Misti]

Some school ask for more than 5 and expect them to be As and Bs to admit them to the sixth form.

will usually be expected to have achieved a minimum of 6 GCSEs at grades A*-B, including Mathematics and English with a minimum average points score of 48 from their best 6 subjects. Students should preferably have achieved A* or A in the subjects they wish to study at A level, but with a minimum of grade B.

(Taken form the 6th form prospectus)

And that's exactly why I thought I'd better come back and clarify where I'd pulled the number from! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) 5 was based on 4 state colleges in somewhat deprived areas of South West England where I happened to know their entrance requirements off hand.

The main point I was trying to make was that quibbling over 8, 9, or 12 GCSEs is not the real issue - I think any music school will give the basics needed to progress to the next level. The post-14 subject dropping is more of a valid concern.

[onemoretime]

I would advocate sixth form at music school as the earlier years, in the school we know, does not provide a solid foundation in most subjects. I can't divulge on here but I think many would be horrified at the low standards at the school we have connections with. Even musically, the parents feel that their children's progress has stalled and they have to make up for that with extra practice in the holiday. Supervised practice is not supervised! There are also children at this school who shouldn't be there as they are simply not good enough or have got in because of a sibling so they feel inadequate and they tend to form the cool bullying group. Lots of parents screaming at kids after concerts too when their child hasn't performed to their liking. This makes for a group of unhappy kids who take it out on other children. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I have to say, now I am really worried (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I would just like to say that Full of wind is not exagerating as I have seen her comments on other fora over some time now,and they are totally consistent to what she is saying here. I have no experience of these schools but trust her judgement