Violin Teachers, Introducing 3rd Position Options

[ma non troppo]

I am interested to know what books/pieces you use to introduce 3rd Position to your students. For years I have been using the MacKay Tuneful Introduction to 3rd Position, and also his Changing Position books, but I am wondering if people think there are now better books to use.

Thanks.

[owainsutton]

I mostly use Fiddle Time Sprinters for this, dipping into it just for Midnight Song and Wild West even if we haven't been using the book otherwise (I have numerous copies acquired over the years which I loan out if necesary!). There's the added bonus that Wade In The Water is now on the Grade 3 syllabus.

[tetrachord]

I came across Mary Cohen's Nifty Shifts a while back. It uses tunes the pupil should know such as Frere Jaques and Ode to Joy and gets them to play in first position before playing the tune in third position. Most of the book has the pupil playing in either first position or third so you'd probably need another book to introduce shifting between first and third.

[owainsutton]

I should probably add that a lot of the introductory work can be done without a book. Simple tunes (e.g. Frere Jacques) in D major, firstly in the lower octave and then in third position. Practicing the shift by itself, singing the interval to anticipate the target note, and also comparing the sixth and the octave against the adjacent open string. Jumping up to a fourth-finger harmonic can be another useful exercise for those reluctant to leave familiar territory.

[Misterioso]

I should probably add that a lot of the introductory work can be done without a book. Simple tunes (e.g. Frere Jacques) in D major, firstly in the lower octave and then in third position. Practicing the shift by itself, singing the interval to anticipate the target note, and also comparing the sixth and the octave against the adjacent open string. Jumping up to a fourth-finger harmonic can be another useful exercise for those reluctant to leave familiar territory.

I agree with this - there is a fair amount of introductory work for which no book is needed. When I do progress on from there, it's not one specific book, but tunes taken from a variety, which I loan out. Being in Scotland, one which I do use quite a lot is The Scottish Folk Fiddle Third Position Book, because most kids here know a variety of traditional tunes. Another good one is Shifting: Thirty Studies for Young Violinists, but this also includes 2nd, 4th and 5th, so a bit more advanced.

[RoseRodent]

Another good one is Shifting: Thirty Studies for Young Violinists, but this also includes 2nd, 4th and 5th, so a bit more advanced.

I find that interesting because I'm not sure of anyone else's experiences, but I was never really given much teaching and security in other positions. You do third and then it's assumed that since the others are the same idea you will just pick them up. I'm now doing some much more serious work in each position using studies, but feel like that would have been better done progressively, so tuneful books in each position (and shifting in and out of them) once third is secure would have been great.

[owainsutton]

I find that interesting because I'm not sure of anyone else's experiences, but I was never really given much teaching and security in other positions. You do third and then it's assumed that since the others are the same idea you will just pick them up. I'm now doing some much more serious work in each position using studies, but feel like that would have been better done progressively, so tuneful books in each position (and shifting in and out of them) once third is secure would have been great.

Yes, the even-numbered positions are often neglected. I try not to let this happen, but it's not so easy to find enough relevant repertoire for the grades 3-5 ability level.

[BadStrad]

I was never really given much teaching and security in other positions. You do third and then it's assumed that since the others are the same idea you will just pick them up. I'm now doing some much more serious work in each position using studies, but feel like that would have been better done progressively, so tuneful books in each position (and shifting in and out of them) once third is secure would have been great.

First and third position give you a lot of coverage - notes wise, that's probably why they get taught in that order. You can play more repertoire with those two.

I got to play stuff in second position before moving to third, and I think it helped me doing it that way round as it was incremental, rather than one bit shift all in one go.

Anyone looking for shifting exercises could try these:-

http://imslp.org/wiki/Changes_of_Position_...%ADk,_Otakar%29

http://imslp.org/wiki/School_of_Violin_Tec...%ADk,_Otakar%29

[RoseRodent]

There are studies in each position, including shifts, in a book called (I think!) 30 studies of moderate difficulty. The violin version is by Mary someone, but the truly fabulous version is for violists as they get to go looking for a book transcribed by someone with the truly fabulous name of Rowsby Woof. Homage to Bach is a great all second position tune with a couple of reference points to the open strings to check tuning.

[owainsutton]

There are studies in each position, including shifts, in a book called (I think!) 30 studies of moderate difficulty. The violin version is by Mary someone...

Mary Cohen, perhaps?

[Violinia]

I don't think you can beat Neil Mackay's 'Position Changing for Violin' book. If you can get any student to work painstakingly through the whole book they will have no problem with 3rd position from then on. My only gripe with the book is that some of the pieces are quite tricky to master and the print is very small.

A rather fun book I use with younger pupils from time to time is the De Haske Position 3 book. It has some great tunes with rather humorous and wonderful backing tracks, but it isn't as painstaking as the Mackay Book, which covers every possible journey from 1st position to 3rd.

[rachelviolin]

I don't think you can beat Neil Mackay's 'Position Changing for Violin' book. If you can get any student to work painstakingly through the whole book they will have no problem with 3rd position from then on. My only gripe with the book is that some of the pieces are quite tricky to master and the print is very small.

I agree - brilliant book and good music. One of mine has just played 'Hebridean Lullaby' as her summer concert piece.

I use it alongside the Rowsby Woof 30 Studies of Moderate Difficulty - the first few of these go very thoroughly through the possible patterns of tones and semitones in third position so really reinforce reading. And some of the pieces from Fiddle Time Sprinters for light relief - Mexican Madness and the duet version of Dvorak Largo have been very popular this term!