Music And Religion, Do you incorporate religion into music? Options

[Hulk]

Hey, it's me again!

I thought this would be an interesting topic. I, personally, incorporate music into religion, mainly by saying a prayer before an exam/performance, asking God to help me do well etc. I just thought it would be interesting to see if others did something similar or didn't for that matter :lol: .

All religions welcome!

Hulk.

[july]

Hello!
No, I don't as I'm not religious. Before performances, I generally try to rely on myself, meaning that I try to boost my confidence by thinking stuff like "I'll be fine", "I'll show them!" etc., without involving supernatural powers. However, I do believe in fate/luck. Would that count as religion?
I do like singing church hymns and songs, and I don't mind singing them, as music and religion are very closely connected. After all, think of people like Pope Gregory (5th Century?) and others that helped to develop notation etc.

[elmo]

I'm not really religous, I don't go to church anymore, but I might go again when I'm older!

I do say prayers sometimes though, for anything I think is important, like exams, performances, the pope.

[cheeble]

My religion is heavily based around silence, which is rather odd considering I want to make music my career. I am a Quaker (a branch of Christianity established at the turn of the 17th century) and our "Sunday Services" consist of collective silent worship, although anyone can stand up and say something if they feel inspired to. There are not many Quaker songs/hymns, as music is not incorporated into the meetings. However there are several Quaker music and drama societies, especially for young Quakers.

But I don't tend to pray, not really. And not for myself. I leave everything up to fate when it comes to exams; if I've prepared, I'll be fine, and nothing extra I say/do will change that. (I have several friends who are committed atheists, and I really value some of the things they have to say!)

[sbhoa]

There is a strong link for me.
It is only because I was in the choir at church that I was lucky enough, after several years of wanting and thinking it impossible, to begin piano lessons.
When we had a change of organist the outgoing one happened to tell us that the new one had been his piano teacher.
Luckily he didn't charge very much and i was allowed to go into church most days to practice until my aunt gave me her piano.

Now I am playing every week in church and see that as a way of giving back some of the gift that I was given all those years ago.

[cheeble]

I think pieces of religious music are fantastic. Music is an amazing way to express any belief or emotion, and there's certainly a lot of both in any religion. It's interesting to see how music differs between religions as well - there are religions that are completely silent (e.g. Quakerism, a denomination of Christianity), compared with the huge volume of oratorios, masses and requiems that have been written throughout the centuries (and I realise here that I am confining this only to the Christian faith, simply because I don't know enough about other religions!!). Cheers Hulk, this is a really interesting topic.

[Semele]

I love religious music.

Further to reading members comments further down this thread,I've decided to edit this post. It is certainly very interesting and I'm very surprised to see just how many of us believe in God. Therefore my earlier comment was inappropriate.

My basic belief in getting through this Life is to treat people the way I expect to be treated. This can manifest itself in many ways, but I think helping people ( even little things like helping an old person across the road safely,opening doors for people wheeling a disabled person or pushing a buggy - even though some people don't bother to say thanks ) and doing good is "religion" enough for me.

Music is timeless, it's universal,it shows no boundaries in relation to human nature,but can be utilized by various creeds,organisations and so forth to their own particular advantage.




This post has been edited by Semele: Apr 9 2005, 06:53 PM

[DGA]

Sure, I am really religious...I want to be sort of like a Bach figure, a great composer of church music. I always pray before and after exams, even during exams. Especially recently, when I got really nervous on my Gr 6 exam (it was my first ABRSM exam) I just sort of kept praying. Then I prayed before I played a piece, asking God to help me, then I pray after a piece for thanksgiving. It's not too odd, but you can say I pray tens of times during difficult times like that-and sure, God doesn't always give me the best answer, but I'm always satisfied.

[Violinia]

Hope I'm not getting too personal and off-topic here, but are either or both of you (hulk and DGA) born-again Christians?

Violinia

[woodwind]

Although I don't go to church I do pray regularly and ask God for help in all sort of circumstances. I also ask my guardian angel for help and advice, which I hope won't seem too weird to other people on here.

This topic has started me thinking about the role of religion in Western music. So many composers, regardless of their own beliefs, have been inspired by religion or by religious themes. Where would Bach have been without his Lutheran faith and where would music be without works like his B minor Mass, St Matthew Passion and the church cantatas? Even non-believers such as Berlioz and Verdi were moved on occasions to create great religious works. Christianity has always played a central part in music but other religions have made contributions as well - Holst's settings of sacred Hindu texts, for example, or Bernstein and Judaism.

[oboist]

Yes, the mixing of religion and music are for me an essential part of my life. I have been, and remain, a church musician for most of my adult life (all styles, all sorts of music). I love to sing and play to the glory of God as my faith is very important to me and it nurtures all I personally do in music. (Before anyone asks, I am a "born again" Christian.)

However, when I teach I never ever try to impose my faith on my students (who all know that I have this background). If I'm asked about it, I am happy to share but I wouldn't ever try to persuade someone in the context of a music lesson or concert about faith - it's such a personal thing.

I pray everyday for my work with young and older musicians and for my own performances when I'm doing a concert or playing in church. I certainly pray for my students when they take their exams too, that God will give them courage and comfort and give wisdom and a sense of fair judgement to the examiner.

I am sure some will think I'm completely batty or that I am well out of order but that's me and what matters in my life. That said, I would totally respect anyone who didn't share my belief. If I pray for a candidate who I know is somewhat "hostile" to faith, I hope I can still ask for peace of mind and strength for them without compromising their own situation, rather as anyone could wish them well for the day (as, indeed, I also do).

A very interesting thread this one and I am enjoying reading the replies! Thanks for suggesting it Hulk! :)

[maggiemay]

QUOTE

A very interesting thread this one and I am enjoying reading the replies! Thanks for suggesting it Hulk!

Agreed!

For musicians who are also believers I think music and religion are often intertwined, and it can be almost impossible to separate the two.

Especially true perhaps for those of us who are church musicians, who play in church and who sing in choirs.

Like Oboist I don't start discussing religion or faith during a music lesson though - any more than I would try to give a music lesson during a church service! There are clues around for anyone who likes to notice - our choir service list is on view in the room where I teach (as are other things that I'm interested in); there may be one or two religious books around (we are great readers), but other topics are also represented - gardening, travel, humour and satire. All part of the paraphernalia of life.

Maggie

[DomRUK]

Much of what oboist says is what I'm about too, re relation of faith to work and policies with pupils etc.

I grew up going to church, but came to sure faith when at university. I wasn't much involved with music at church as I grew up, but in my teens was a choirmaster. After becoming a christian, I was introduced to "contemporary worship music", which I've taught some other christians in - it's the sort found on those Greatest Worship Songs CDs (or whatever they called them) that are advertised on TV from time to time (or found at wesleyowen.com if you've not come across it). This takes pop music styles and uses them to help create quite personal worship (in a group setting), and a sense of intimacy with God is particularly valued. It also values and draws upon other worship styles, including hymns.

I write some worship songs now, so my music and faith are thoroughly mixed together! In contemporary worship music there's lots of scope for keyboard playing based on chords, so the improvisation aspect I've learnt to do in this has been very useful in teaching composition and harmony in lessons - and with potential GCSE songwriters! Generally, my pupils are just aware I'm a christian from the blurb I give out when I start lessons (saying a bit about me, qualifications etc., as they do on concert programmes). Some of my adult pupils, when they ask at the end of a lesson what I'll do in my holidays I might say in passing that I'll be working on my worship songs, and some who are interested ask about it, but as Maggiemay was saying, there's the matter of context in these things.

In practice with my lessons, my faith means I'm asking Father things lots of the time, and asking for help of course! It keeps me careful with policies, and makes me uncomfortable when I realise what some pop songs are really about! (I teach singing too). It helps me have peace in difficult situations when they occur, helps me with working out priorities, and helps me as I keep trying to work out the attitudes to have regarding encouraging pupils to practise, forgiving, discipline, warmth, formality - keeping working for a right and good balance.

As to which is more important to me, I love music in my life, but my faith in having forgiveness from God is far more precious to me (to get to the root of the initial question for me). But nonetheless I've found (as someone was saying before, regarding great composers) that music is for me one of the best ways to relate with Father, as it expresses the emotions behind the words so well - which is why films have background music I guess, even though there don't seem to be so many film "musicals" with lots of singing these days. Music is so valuable in so many ways. I also love the way in which learning a musical instrument is such a good process for youngsters to go through, feeding and enriching their life and abilities in so many ways.

Well, there's how the two mix for me.

[zoda]

QUOTE (oboist @ Apr 9 2005, 03:17 PM)

If I pray for a candidate who I know is somewhat "hostile" to faith, I hope I can still ask for peace of mind and strength for them without compromising their own situation

interesting post, oboist. I remember a very firm atheist friend of mine had some personal bother (can't remember what it was) which he mentioned to a girl in an orchestra we were both in at the time. I was in a quite long period of lack of faith myself. We didn't know she was a Christian until she said "I'll say a prayer for you" and wrote a little note to remind herself in a notebook she had. I have always remembered that both myself and my friend found this very touching, because we recognised that within the girl (I think she was called Nicky)'s way of thinking this was a thoughtful and positive thing to do, and she was clearly not trying to impose her beliefs on my friend, she was just staying true to them herself. This contrasted quite starkly with the hostile and barrier building reception achieved by Christians on campus who knocked on doors or preached loudly at people in a fairly clumsy attempt to instantly "convert" people. I think rather than hitting on random people, Christians (or for that matter Muslims or any other faith) should try to demonstrate the benefits of their faith in their own lives, and be open to discuss their faith with the far smaller but much richer vein of people who may over a lifetime express their own interest in it.

As regards whether prayers of intercession work or not, I get the impression that they don't always work. I have in mind the prayers written on their cell walls by children during the holocaust, or the prayers said across the globe prior to the beheading of altruistic aid workers in Iraq. Or the prayers said for many a child or loved one who is lost to illness or injury. When I re-asserted my faith some years ago I decided that rather than try to explain why these things happen I would rather admit that I just don't know. That was pretty much all the answer that Job got when he said "In the cities the wounded and dying cry out, but God ignores their prayers"- God's answer was, in essence "you don't know everything Job". I also decided that the fact that I have been brought up in a Christian family does not invalidate my faith - it's part of who I am. I also decided that I'm prepared to find out that I'm wrong, because I find the Christian teachings attractive anyway. So if I get to heaven and somebody says "there's nobody here - that's it you're just dead" I will have no regrets because the Christian teachings are about how we live this life, not the next one, and the benefits of that are in this life, not the next one. If this world is no more than an entrance examination to get into heaven, then all the cruelty that exists doesn't really matter because it's all about what happens next - and I think this life is infinitely more important than that.

I have to say I have rather more faith in those prayers in which we ask God for the strength to do things ourselves - eg "please help us to help the family centre" as opposed to "please sort those kids out so we don't have to worry about them".

I have to admit although I do say a little prayer when I do a solo in Church, I do often get quite nervous and sweaty palmed, and what also seemed to work on one occasion was pretending to be a tanked up Violinia. B)

[zoda]

PS- such a different point that I'm putting it in a separate post. All this reading about the benefits of singing/ Kodaly method lead me to wonder whether the erosion of morning assembly and singing which used to be a daily event in my school is a tragedy from a purely musical and educational/ stimulation point of view, regardless of one's views about religion.