European Pianist,asian Pianist, Differences??? Options

[SuperBB87]

Hi guys,what do you notice about the differences between the playing of European and Asian pianists?

[stacetheace8]

Chinese seem to be very good at playing the piano! Its so unfair!

[George Burrell]

QUOTE (stacetheace8 @ May 24 2005, 07:33 PM)

Chinese seem to be very good at playing the piano! Its so unfair!

In our country, Asians now dominate all the competitive festivals and they get high marks in exams. They are also more likely to be learning than other groups in the community. We have a Chinese pianist John Chen who at 18 won an international contest in a festival in Sydney - he would also be eligible to compete in 10 years time! He topped Grade 8 in NZ while only about 13!

Strangely enough .. for some reason, I don't see so many adult pianists from this background performing around the town. I think that many of these intellectuals have some attractive options. For example John Chen was top NZ student in his final year at school in a science subject. At the time of his festival performance, he had 40 hours of repertoire he could draw upon.

We have some brilliant pianists of Asian background in NZ achieving amazing things - I heard an 11 year old perform the Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu for example.

At that festival though, the adjudicator told the child prodigies that if they were playing material at that level, he expected them to take responsibility for being in the right style, for pedalling appropriately and accurately, for intrepretation. I could see his point clearly in some cases, where I felt that the degree of difficulty was running ahead of the musicianship.

[frances]

There are a lot of excellent Asian pianists around - and here inthe U.K as well. I think that one of the reasons why they are so successful is that they seem to have a different attitude to practise (back to practise again!)

I was reading about how pianists succeed -- more successful than other students who are just as musically gifted and it was suggested that it is the amount of hours of practise that determines success.(maybeI read it on this forum?)

In our local area there are many very talented child pianists both European and Asian who are playing at very high standards- ( Chopin Fantasie- Impromptu and Chopin etudes at 11 years)

These children are also bright academically and generally have very good teachers and are prepared to put in the hours of practise. I don't think it is necessarily a difference in musical ability.

[George Burrell]

QUOTE (frances @ May 25 2005, 08:12 AM)

There are a lot of excellent Asian pianists around - and here inthe U.K as well. I think that one of the reasons why they are so successful is that they seem to have a different attitude to practise (back to practise again!) I was reading about how pianists succeed -- more successful than other students who are just as musically gifted and it was suggested that it is the amount of hours of practise that determines success.(maybeI read it on this forum?) In our local area there are many very talented child pianists both European and Asian who are playing at very high standards- ( Chopin Fantasie- Impromptu and Chopin etudes at 11 years) These children are also bright academically and generally have very good teachers and are prepared to put in the hours of practise. I don't think it is necessarily a difference in musical ability.

Number of hours of practice is a very crude predictor of student progress.

There is an old saying - think 10 times and play once!

It is the number of PRODUCTIVE hours of work that should be added up. Within that productive time, different pianists have widely different productivities. Fast learners will make at least 5 times the progress of slow learners in a given time.

The look at motivation and culture. As we all know, self motivation is the optimal. Carrot and stick is believed to be another common approach.

Obviously when you get academically gifted children also working long hours at the keyboard, you are going to see progress!

[DGA]

Music used to be a means of escaping from China after the Cultural Revolution happened. They didn't have much choice. Chinese music students were told and forced to practice long hours (I mean really long, say 10 hours a day or so). It could be there own motivation too, to practise that much, maybe because their parents had spent a lot of money for lessons. The bad side was, there wasn't a really good teacher there, and the students were forced to play in a certain way without allowing them to invent something new. Most of the students were bored, but they felt that it was better bored than wrong. When the communist influenced got down a bit, some world famous musicians started visiting China, such as violinist Issac Stern. When the students there heard and saw him play, they were amazed, because all they had learnt were technical work and they had never really saw how to play with feeling, and stuff like that. Then those students, who had became great technique masters were brought to the U.S or Europe to study further, especially on interpretation. They became great pianists, such as Lang Lang, Yundi-Li (first Asian winner of the 2000 International Chopin Competition, Poland), and so on. This also happened in many other countries with strong restrictions like China.

Now take a look at European and American teenagers, are they practising that much? Few are. They have many choices, they have many distractions and temptations (computers, TV, video games, the Internet-I'm regretting that I'm doing it now!). So we have great teachers, but many of the best students come from Asia! :angry:

[sbhoa]

Is it partly a cultural thing too?
It seems that Asian youngsters are more likely to put in the (quality) time because they are told to even where there is little interest (some past posts on here have suggested that).
Don't know about USA but you don't generally get british children carrying on learning an instrument (and progressing) if they are more or less forced to. Most in that situation would put in so little effort that they would just drive their teachers to distraction.
I have read in the past on these forums about youngsters from the east passing grade 8 when they really had no interset in their instrument... can't see that happening here (UK). <_<

[sl123451]

it seems that a lot of developing pianists from asia are more likely to be oriental, i havent heard of more than 1 or 2 concert pianists who come from somewhere like india or pakistan or bangladesh

the majority of professional pianists do seem to come from britain, russia, oriental countries, and maybe france and germany.

[crazy_purple_piano_freak]

i find that often chinese and japanese piano music is of a different style that european music cant really capture. being chinese myself, i think that asian music has a more magical oriental feel to it if you get what i mean...think joe hisaishi...i love his music!

[Billyd]

One reason there might be so many good asian (or "oriental") pianists is that there are so many of them! We do seem to forget that China accounts for a quarter of the world's population.

I'm not sure I'd know what to make of this discussion if I was Chinese - are people saying they are surprised that there are good asian pianists and that some explanation is required?

What is true is that many young pianists with a chinese cultural background seem to be able to do the practise (yes practise - thinking ten times and doing it once doesn't work for anything else - like football or tennis!) with more personal discipline. I've seen it here in England among a large group of very talented young pianists and its confirmed by their parents.

We should not be surprised that there are cultural differences between people - its what makes the world go around....

It would also explain why there appear to be so few good young Asian pianists from the Indian sub-continent. Theya re also Asian but the culture is very different. Not better or worse, just different...

Culture doesn't mean genes - in the context of this discussion it means exposure to classical music at a young age, access to musical instruments and availability of teachers. It also means things like attitude towards hard work, sacrifice and ambition for success. In "the west", many young people who devote themselves to music are considered freaks not only by their freinds at school, but also by many realtives and family friends. I don't suppose this happens much in China...

[piano_chik_em]

The asian population isnt the only reason why they are so good. It's because they are VERY hard workers in all aspects of life. Work, Music whatever. I'm chinese, but I was born in NZ so I don't have those characteristics drilled into me. My teacher and many other people hav esaid I hav the potential to be a very good piantists, the fact is I feel I have more important things to do.

Just because There are a lot of Chinese people around doesnt mean that European's can't be better. They just have to work hard. At my school I'm one of the best pianists but I'm not know as the best. A Kiwi (european) is!

Some people are just naturally gifted, I know someone who didn't learn piano until about 15 and now he's amazing, he did grade 7 (trinity) in his second year and is composing amazing pieces now!

So I actually find that offence when you say "Billyd" that " One reason there might be so many good asian (or "oriental") pianists is that there are so many of them!" (I know I could quote it but I can't be bothered rite now when I'm a little angry) also the word "them" is offensive, what make us so much different to you? we are the same, we breathe the same air and walk the same ground yet we are different to you? choose you're world's wisely next time because you wouldn't like to be "different" Trust me I know what it's like.

[George Burrell]

QUOTE (Billyd @ May 27 2005, 07:50 PM)

One reason there might be so many good asian (or "oriental") pianists is that there are so many of them! We do seem to forget that China accounts for a quarter of the world's population. In "the west", many young people who devote themselves to music are considered freaks not only by their freinds at school, but also by many realtives and family friends. I don't suppose this happens much in China...

A point of clarification here. In my contribution, I was not talking about what is happening in China, but here in Auckland New Zealand. Our Asian population (anywhere in Asia) is around 10 per cent of the greater region. And yet I picked up our North Shore Competitions Festival programme yesterday, and once again, Asian pianists of all ages dominated - in excess of 75 per cent I would say. Culturally, it is children of Western origin who you might expect to identify with Western musical traditions, but sadly those links in New Zealand are weakening.

Remember too that the distractions available to Western children are available to the Asian children who live here as well.

Some subscribers have claimed that sopme children of Chinese origins are being forced to practise extremely long hours, and they achieve success without really having their hearts in music. This may go some way to explain my observation - that there does not seem to be the same proportions of Asians teaching and performing as adults. I would be delighted if someone could tell us all we are wrong about this - because I think it would be sad if the statistics supported this hypothesis.

Also never forget that amongst all this possible learning against one's will, some outstanding individuals with a long-term commitment are emerging.

[piano_chik_em]

Sorry but are you just implying that all asians who play piano practice for long hours and are good? Thats just as bad as stereotyping a blonde.

Asian people want to learn how to play piano good, a lot of european's start an instrument then can't be bothered doing. I must say being more Kiwi than Chinese I think about it all the time.

Asian's aren't stopping European's from learning piano and being good at it, it's up to the individual. Like I said, at my school I'm considered a good musician but i'm not the best and neither is any other asian. My friend who is a kiwi is.

[Billyd]

Dear Piano chik em,

thanks for your response. I'd agree with everything you say but I should clarify that when I say "there are so many of them" my point is that we should not be surprised that there are a lot of good chinese/Asian or whatever pianists when you are talking about quarter/half the world's population.

"them" is not meant to be offensive - so my apologies for using the expression. I just meant "them" in the sense of the people who were being referred to when I joined the thread.

What I'm really trying to say is that we should not be looking for explanations as to why there are so many good young asian pianists - we should celebrate the fact. I think its maybe because their cultures are often more supportive for young painists, but I am not Asian so I don't really know.

I am however European, and I can see huge cultural differences in the relatively small area of western Europe and the impact they have on attitudes to art and music. This again is something to be celebrated, not apologised for.

The sad fact of life in the UK at the moment however, is that if a boy is good at football everyone will understand the hours of practise he spends on the pitch, but if he wants to practise for 3 hours a day to become a fine musician, friends and family will start asking if it is good for him. I know, I've been there and you do end up feeling that piano playing is not valued as much as sport by most people here...

Good luck with your playing...

[piano_chik_em]

Billyd

Thanks for the clarification- get a lil jumpy over racisim esp. to asians because I experience it all the time and it gets awfully painful and tedious.