Teaching Improvisation, Made up on the spot or learned? Options

[Nicknack]

I've just got my first AB jazz student. Studying for grade 5 alto sax and dumped by former teacher.

I've put students through the Guildhall exams but this is my first taste of the AB ones. Though my question could apply to any jazz exam.

When you teach the prepared pieces do you encourage students to learn a solo or do you expect them to make it up on the spot? Or perhaps a bit of both.

The former had never really occurred to me - it is an improvisation exam after all, not a memory one - until this student turned up with some hand-written solos that she intended to learn.

It struck me that the examiner has no way of knowing whether it's one or the other.

So what do the rest of you do?

[Violinia]

I've just got my first AB jazz student. Studying for grade 5 alto sax and dumped by former teacher.

I've put students through the Guildhall exams but this is my first taste of the AB ones. Though my question could apply to any jazz exam.

When you teach the prepared pieces do you encourage students to learn a solo or do you expect them to make it up on the spot? Or perhaps a bit of both.

The former had never really occurred to me - it is an improvisation exam after all, not a memory one - until this student turned up with some hand-written solos that she intended to learn.

It struck me that the examiner has no way of knowing whether it's one or the other.

So what do the rest of you do?

There's no WAY you should encourage her to play a prepared solo!!! This would defeat the whole object, because improvisation is meant to be played on the hoof, otherwise it isn't improvisation - it's something else.

Believe me, the jazz examiners aren't stupid, and can tell if the candidate is playing something they've prepared before - it's one of the things they look out for. They're all jazzers themselves so know exactly what to look for!

She can use licks she likes and has used before, because every jazzer uses licks (little motivs), but a whole solo - no!!!

Surely if the candidate knows what key she's in, is well versed in the scales appropriate for the piece, and has been well prepared, she shouldn't have too much trouble improvising in the exam. If she doesn't feel ready to improvise in front of an examiner then perhaps she's not really ready for the exam and needs more time to practise improvising in front of people she doesn't know.

So in a nutshell, tell her no, she must NOT prepare a solo!

Violinia

[Nicknack]

Thank you.

That's just what I thought.

[Kate]

I did a great improvisation class with saxophonist Andy Scott - he's a tutor at RNCM, and he encouraged us to just practice using 2 or 3 notes at first, and try to add rhythmic interest with just those, then add more notes afterwards when you're confident about just using a few. I always thought that improvisation was something scary, but after that it's never seemed as daunting!

[margrave of brandenburg]

I'm interested in Improvisation myself. Recently i asked my student to make up little tunes with just the black keys. she came to lesson the following week and played for me the 3 different tunes she made up over the week. I then asked her pick the favorite one out of the 3 and continue to build upon it and play for me again the next lesson.

i dont' know too much about improv though and certainly can't improvize with perfect harmony - i can only do it single handed. What are some suggestions to starting improvisation - the basics. is working with only the black keys a good way to start? i tried improvising simple tunes with both hands just playing black keys all over the keyboard and it sounded great (not saying the pentatonic melodies) b/c it doesn't matter which key i use, they always harmonize. Anyway, i'm thirsty for other improvisation ideas. this is both a question for me and my younger students. I would like to try it myself and see how i can apply this to my kids.

thanks

[jacky]

Once my woodwind pupils can 'copy play' (ie play back to me 3 or 4 notes) I get them to then do this over a chord progrssion (just 2 alternation chords to begin with) . We then swap places - with me copying them over a chord progression. Then gradually addd more length and more chords etc.

[jacky]

Once my woodwind pupils can 'copy play' (ie play back to me 3 or 4 notes) I get them to then do this over a chord progrssion (just 2 alternation chords to begin with) . We then swap places - with me copying them over a chord progression. Then gradually addd more length and more chords etc.
With my keyboard pupils, I tend to teach them the simple chord pregressions as well - and harmonise simple tunes .

[Kate]

We were encouraged to perhaps just play one long note from the scale, and just listen to how it fits in with the chord sequence/groove underneath. then we could work out for ourselves which notes we liked, which ones we didnt, and how to build melodies.

[newcurio]

;) :huh:

I'm interested in Improvisation myself.  Recently i asked my student to make up little tunes with just the black keys.  she came to lesson the following week and played for me the 3 different tunes she made up over the week.  I then asked her pick the favorite one out of the 3 and continue to build upon it and play for me again the next lesson.

i dont' know too much about improv though and certainly can't improvize with perfect harmony - i can only do it single handed.  What are some suggestions to starting improvisation - the basics. is working with only the black keys a good way to start?  i tried improvising simple tunes with both hands just playing black keys all over the keyboard and it sounded great (not saying the pentatonic melodies) b/c it doesn't matter which key i use, they always harmonize.  Anyway, i'm thirsty for other improvisation ideas.  this is both a question for me and my younger students.  I would like to try it myself and see how i can apply this to my kids.

thanks

[wolfie]

I agree about not 'learning' an improv. The trouble I have is when I practice a piece so much I get little bits that keep repeating themselves in each improv either because I like it, or because my fingers fall naturally there. As much as I want it to be free improvisation, sometimes it just isn't 100% free. It's about 90%. Does anyone else have this problem?

[lesley]

hi wolfie,

Is this what critics mean when they say that 'such and such' composer, in his early days, was 'heavily influenced by' Debussy, or Chopin, or whoever? I think you are in good company.

Carry on and do it your way.

The more you improvise the better and then it will gradually develop into your own individual style. Honest, it will!