Why Won't Teacher Enter Child For Exam? Options

[Semele]

Hi, I think you are probably getting too involved in the emotional baggage here and points to simply remember are:-

1.  Your stepdaughter has mentioned grade 3, in which case this is why it has been mentioned by her teacher about a new cello as school instruments are only really suitable for up to grade 2 then not be of a good enough tone or sensitivity to carry you through grade 3 due to inferior strings etc.  (can this be bought for a xmas present by her father, you can get good second hand instruments, and instrumental teachers usually know of people who deal with these independently, at least do your homework, so you have a good enough instrument for her standard.
2.  She probably has not been entered for a number of reasons.  Her intonation may be not secure enough at present and will not improve without practice of the pieces, she may be weak in her music theory, scales or sight reading.
3.  Have a serious talk with her.  Get grade 3 pieces along with cd.  You can also get an aural training book with cd.  She is old enough now to understand that regular practice is essential.  Sit down and work a timetable out with her.  Even it is only 20-30 a day playing time, this should be enough at this level to get her through comfortably.  When she comes over then get her to play pieces for you, and you can then assess for yourselves how she is getting on, and you will be able to tell from her performance if she has been keeping to the practice timetable.  If she wants to enter a grade badly enough, she will do this, she just needs a little organising, she will do the rest, and this can be done with or without her mothers help. 
4.  Even if mother and father are estranged, he has the right to know how his daughter is progressing in all walks of life.  She should have had a report on her progress last term from her cello teacher, have you seen this?  If not ask to see it and you may get some insight as to why the teacher feels she is not ready to take this grade yet.
5.  Music books purchased from shops with cds are often of a grade 3 level, and these can be quite tricky without practice, which is what this all seems to come down to.

It is easy to sit back and blame the mother in these situations, but this should not be made into a point scoring excercise, I think between you and your stepdaughter, this can be sorted without creating waves with mother and music teacher.  Good luck! :)

Tracey

I feel you are being a little hard on Jenny here. Dealing with two families is never easy.

[jennysimsveale]

Thank you for all your suggestions. We have been working on it and thought you would like to know the outcome.

Hubby phoned the teachers office, understandably he was out teaching but they promised to pass on a message and he called back the following morning :)

The teacher said that he felt she had made good progress especially over the sumer holidays. She had a break from July to September. He was pleased that she was finally playing something other than those one or two pieces she is given each week to practice, ie the playalong books and also going back over her other books to find pieces she likes. He said he thought she was ready to go in for a grade 3 exam. Hubby pointed out that she had never taken an exam before and suggested it might be less daunting to put her in for grade one or two first. She would feel good about passing and may get a better mark which can be a real confidence booster. The teacher was fine with the suggestion and said he would put her in for grade 2 at Christmas.

On the matter of the cello, we are a little gobsmacked by his suggestion. What is wrong with a modestly priced student cello ? I'm not speaking cheapest, but all the other beginner instruments we have bought have been good student instruments which will see the child up about grade 5, and have been reccomended by both teacher and our local excellent music shop. The cello the teacher suggested costs twice as much as the recomended student one. Also we asked about size and he said they didn't come in standard sizes. That if we got the one he suggested it would be the right size. I think we might have to go back to him about that .

Thanks again for all your suggestions, this is a lovely forum.

[Tess]

You sound quite relieved. I am pleased to hear that you have got that fairly sorted. All the best for the cello issue, too. :)

Tess

[maggiemay]

Thank you for keeping us posted Jenny!

Pleased to know you have opened up communication with the child's teacher. It's very encouraging to know that he feels she could cope with grade 3 - the suggestion of doing gr2 is probably a good one - but the thought that she could attempt gr 3 is very confidence building for her.

I hope the lessons continue to go well and your daughter enjoys working for the exam.

[elliewelly]

Jenny, I'm so happy for you, and the teacher sounds very helpful, well done! I'm sure that a good pass in grade 2 will boost your daughter so much, and probably spur her on to attempt grade 3 really quickly! Did you find out whether she has been covering scales, sight reading and aural in her lessons? If not, might you be able to help her with those things?

I'm not that surprised that her teacher has suggested a really good instrument, especially if she shows potential, and it sounds like she does. But you know what your budget is, and if you go back to your music shop, with your daughter and armed with this knowledge, I'm sure they'll be really helpful. A standard grade 5 instrument will probably be fine for at least 2 or 3 years, and then if she's still doing well you could always sell or part-exchange it to buy a better cello. As she's still growing, it is important to consult the shop on getting the right sized instrument for her. Hopefully they will be able to recommend something within your price range which will last her for a few years, both in terms of quality and size. Thanks for keeping us updated.

[AnotherPianist]

Good to hear a story with a happy ending, we never usually hear the ending, just the dilemma and then nothing else. Thankyou for coming back to share the ending :).

[elidatrading]

On the matter of the cello, we are a little gobsmacked by his suggestion.  What is wrong with a modestly priced student cello ?  I'm not speaking cheapest, but all the other beginner instruments we have bought have been good student instruments which will see the child up about grade 5, and have been reccomended by both teacher and our local excellent music shop.  The cello the teacher suggested costs twice as much as the recomended student one.  Also we asked about size and he said they didn't come in standard sizes.  That if we got the one he suggested it would be the right size.  I think we might have to go back to him about that .

I'd put an awful lot of money on that being a teacher kickback situation.

Liz

[frumpybabes]

Glad to hear a happy ending on this story re lessons/exams.

Just in case you are looking for a cello, read on :)

My son is a young cellist too. He is sitting grade 3 this term. Where are you just out of interest? My local music shop hires out cellos £30 a term they are really nice whatever size you need. They are all stentors in excellent condition and all setup ready to pay. As far as I know there is also no deposit !!

Alternatively www.gear4music.com have very cheap cellos especially if you use the AIPS Vat free scheme through the school your stepdaughter is at. A child in my son's group has just got one from them and it is very nice, he upgraded the strings on it but it has played in very nicely. Cost him under £200 for new cello with dominant/jargar strings from ebay :). Other option is purchase 2nd hand which is what we did.

[SteveHopwood]

I'd put an awful lot of money on that being a teacher kickback situation.

Liz

This is worth considering. Just about every piano showroom I have ever visited has offered me a 'kickback' for an 'introduction' resulting in a sale.

Never accepted them and never will. I want advice I give to students always to be entirely in their interest.

Steve :D

[Violinia]

message deleted

[ringaringa]

I obviously shop in the wrong places - I've never been offered a kickback!

I get 10% off music and that's my lot.

[elidatrading]

I obviously shop in the wrong places - I've never been offered a kickback!

I get 10% off music and that's my lot.

How common it is varies from country to country. I remember being quite shocked when the Armstrong flute representative told me that if I were in continental Europe i would have to offer 15% to the teacher to have any hope of getting a sale. In the US it seems to be very common too, at least with strings. It doesn't seem to be common in the UK but it does happen. One fairly innocent way it can happen is that a shop routinely gives a 10-15% discount to teachers, the teacher buys the instruments and sells them on at the shop's usual price. I used to get this discount from a specialist violin shop (closed long since) but I always passed it straight on to the pupils.

Speaking as a dealer who does not give teacher kickbacks, you can spot the "kickback" situation a mile off. From our point of view, it looks like this: the pupil or parent calls and says that the teacher is keen for her to buy a (whatever it is) but she's seen our website and wonders what we might have to offer. We send something, or several items, out on approval, and in no time at all, almost by return of post, it comes back with no prior contact (just "we're sending it back" or even it just turning up unannounced), with no reason given or a reason given that makes absolutely no sense (such as "the tailpiece was too small" said of a full size Wittner tailpiece on a full size violin). The pupil or parent makes no move to discuss any other possible options and that is the last we hear of them.

From the pupil or parent's point of view it should be even easier to spot: if the teacher is keen for you to buy from a particular shop and tries to convince you that every other shop for miles around must be inferior, or the teacher is keen for you to buy a particular instrument that he just happens to have in his possession, you've probably got a kickback or commission situation. You may consider it worth buying what the teacher suggests in order to keep on the right side of him, but it is worth being aware of what is likely to be going on.

Liz

[elliewelly]

I'm shocked... maybe I'm ignorant, but I've never come across anything like this. I know my local woodwind shop does nothing like this too. I have sold instruments through music shops, who then take something like 10% commission, but that's normal and completely different isn't it?

Sorry have gone OT now.

[elidatrading]

Yes Ellie, that's normal and completely different (and indeed rather low, most shops ask for 15 - 20%). Kickbacks aren't all that common in our experience but are very easy to spot when they do occur.

Liz

[zoda]

interesting thread, Jenny.

it must be very frustrating because you are trying to fit what is meant to be a day by day learning experience into the weekends. I have to say I don't particularly blame your step-daughter's natural mother for not promoting the cello practise - whilst her daughter is with her she is within reason entitled to lead the family life she chooses, and not one she perhaps feels "squeezed upon her" by her ex husband's family.

It would be a different matter if her mum was refusing her permission to practise, but actively supporting practise is an enormous task even for a parent who loves music and the instrument in question. A parent who has no real interest in music or the instrument in question may nevertheless want for some reason to encourage that instrument for their child's sake, but I don't think they can be criticised if they don't want to. Of course if your step daughter lived with you things would be different, but that doesn't mean that her mother's way of life is wrong.

It seems to me almost inevitable that if practise is only done at the weekends, progress will be slow. Waiting for mum to encourage progress will be a frustrating waste of time. The only way that your step daughter will progress more quickly is if she herself decides to get on with her own practise whilst staying at her mothers house. That is a matter of choice for your step daughter and not her mother. If the desire and enthusiasm is seen to come from your step daughter, rather than her father's family, it would be reasonable to expect mum to at least allow the practise to take place.

It may be that your support of your step-daughter's wish to take exams will encourage her to take her own decision to practise. Since she is the one who wanted to take an exam, I think the expectation to do some practise throughout the week is a fair measure of responsibility to place on your step-daughter's own shoulders.

In my view, although life shouldn't be like this, how nice a cello your step daughter has may well affect how much she wants to practise it. For instance an instrument which after three years of practise sounds less pleasant than the natural singing voice of the instrumentalist is unlikely to have the same daily attraction than a beautiful instrument with a big round rich mellow sound which hits you the moment the bow hits the strings. It may also affect how keen her mother is to hear her practise! I don't therefore automatically criticise your step daughter's teacher for recommending a more expensive instrument. However all that mullarkey about being so sure that one particular instrument will be just the right size before she's even tried it does, sadly, raise a few questions even in my generally trusting mind.

If you know a professional cello teacher or player near you, I suppose you could take a second opinion from them - firstly as to the appropriate size of instrument (I think it is true that with cellos not all full sized instruments are the same size, but you could at least get a rough idea of whether it's a 3 /4, 7/8 or full sized cello she needs). Then get in a number of instruments on approval, including the one recommended by your daughter's teacher, and perhaps one of the less expensive ones you have in mind or on this thread, and see what your cello playing friend and your step daughter think. Maybe it will turn out that her teacher is much maligned and has in fact chosen her the best deal.

I bought a 1/4 sized Gliga Gems II for my daughter (6) from Liz (who has posted above), and we agreed that I would be able to trade it in in part exchange for her next instrument (obviously not at full value). My daughter has been knocked off course by a bad arm fracture, but has now fully recovered, and I am really looking forward to finding out what her teacher thinks of the instrument when she goes back. I think it is stunning. The only downer with the Gliga Cellos is they come by post which is included in the price, but expensive (I guess) if you have to send it back. That didn't put me off because I've already had one or two other Gligas off Liz and I know how good they are, but to someone who doesn't know the instruments, the amount of P&P really could be offputting.