As some of you know, I have just come out of hospital. Last Monday taught as usual, but this week I have had to cancel everyone. I did however say that I would teach one pupil, a boy with very pushy parents. The only reason is that he is playing in four classes in the local festival next Saturday and also exams are next week, and I feel sorry for the poor boy who is very talented but pushed. So today I got up from my sickbed and let him and his mother in for his lesson (mother always stays).

She then proceeded to tell me that she had got the childs clarinet teacher to give him a piano lesson in between and handed me a list of the faults this teacher found with the boy's playing.

I was not too pleased, to say the least. I didn't want to offend her, but did point out that her son had achieved distinctions in all his exams with me and also won all classes in the festival over the last two years, and that another opinion of his playing was not necessary.

What would you have done?

I would have told her to let the clarinet teacher continue with his lessons. I don't tolerate any interference from anyone. Obviously the boy is doing well with you so there is no reason for them to get a second opinion.

You didn't want to offend her? Pity she wasn't so considerate when she let someone else interfere with your teaching and provide you with a list of faults. If the clarinet knows that much about piano why is he teaching clarinet? Sorry, but I'd let the clarinet teacher get on with it and then when he doesn't do so well in exams and festivals, mother will get the message!!

I hope you're feeling a bit better now nannyjay.

I wonder what she told the clarinet teacher to get him or her to agree to this?

Ask her point blank to explain exactly why on earth she needed a second opinion when the boy has been winning all his classes at festivals and getting distinctions in all his exams sice he's been learning with you? It's a record you should be rightly proud of, by the way.

Another thing, how old is the boy? Old enough for him not to need his mother at every lesson, perhaps? Is it your idea she stays, or hers? If it's hers and the boy's over 7 perhaps it's time to give her her marching orders from your studio.

She sounds like a complete nightmare and one can only sympathise with the poor child. Sounds to me like a lesson with you and away from her is just what the doctor ordered. And talking of doctors, what's she thinking of, pressurising you to give him lessons when you've only just come out of hospital?

Aaargh!

Violinia

Poor nannyjay, and poor kid!! It's often hard to know how to confront the mother on a subject like this. Perhaps a phone call would be the best way to do it, as the child won't be in the room. Explain to her that you feel it is in her son's best interests to have lessons independently from her, and say why you think this, and also inform her that you have a course of action planned for this guy that would progress much faster were she not to give him lessons for other teachers.

Personally I wouldn't bother looking at the fault list, but you could pretend you have, and assure her you're working on it!!

I think you did the right thing to point out how well this boy has been doing with you. Pushy parents are so awful - I've had to deal with a couple, but none as bad as yours!!!

If she continues to be this awful, tell her that you can't work properly if she keeps interfering, and threaten to stop the boy's lessons. If she still keeps being awful, move to Siberia and then she won't be able to complain to you!

Really hope it all gets better soon - don't take it too personally, you're obviously a fantastic teacher - and what does this woman know anyway?

How awful! And what a CHEEK from the mother! I would make it clear to her that this is a 'sackable' offence and that you are only prepared to continue teaching her son because you are fond of him - and DEFINITELY ban her from sitting in on his lessons in future. If you don't react to her behaviour, she will think that she can do what she likes and is likely to interfere more and more. You sound as if you are doing a great job, so don't let her jeopardise things!

Good luck!

This sounds like a nightmare, particularly if you aren't feeling on top of the world at the moment. Wow, you have my sympathy. If it had happened to me I'm sure I'd feel deeply offended, upset and then angry towards her.
I feel sure though that she's probably unaware of the implications of her actions. I would say that she is only thinking of her son (poor lad).

From this moment onwards she has broken any trust that existed between teacher + pupil/mother. The clarinet teacher has also acted (in my opinion) unprofessionally. As for a written list..........who wrote it? Her? Or the clarinet teacher?

I'm sorry I have to finish here, but if it had happened to me I don't think I would feel able to continue teaching her son. She has let you down deeply. She has caused uneccesary upset, at a time when you really should be looking after yourself and recuperating.

Rosemary.

Does she wait in another room or in the same room?

Being in the same room is just ridiculous. So distracting! Our son's teacher teaches a young boy whose father often waits in the same room, and she says that the boy behaves terribly when that happens. She doesn't have the heart to say anything.

For the very first lesson, it's perfectly normal for a parent to be present, but from then on, there should be no disturbance of any kind.

I have mixed feelings about the other teacher. Like you, I'd be furious and upset, yet the mother is perfectly within her rights to try someone else.

I'm not a music teacher, but I can't help thinking that it would be a good idea for private teachers to be a lot more organised and strict about their own 'rules and regulations'. ie have a small leaflet that all new clients receive with some Dos and Dont's, what you expect, weekly practise, certain important rules, - like not staying in the same room etc!!

I can't stand pushy parents. I hope she doesn't end up putting him off music. It can happen!

Good luck!

Steve

Chances are high that the mother did not realise what she was doing - and chances are also high that the clarinet teacher was put under pressure to do such a thing. It may have been portrayed as "teacher won't be able to see him before the festival" or somethign like that. I would want to make it clear that I was miffed but you certainly don't want to lose a pupil like that.

Liz

Any "faults" with the boys playing are his faults not yours, so don't take this woman personally.

Presumably you will never teach this boy again when you are so sick. I organised to teach a girl a week after getting out of hospital and sent her straight home when I realised she had done no practise whilst I had been ill. My exact words were "I am acting against Doctors orders to teach you and I find that you are perfectly healthy and couldn't be bothered to practise. it's your Grade 4 not mine, so think about that whilst I go back to bed."

As for mum staying - well it has obviously worked in the past as his distinctions etc. suggest. I don't think it's good PR to throw her out now, however much you want to.

Wait until you feel better and then have a good think about what (if anything) you want to do.

Were these 'faults' technical faults (in the clarinet teacher's oh so humble opinion), or just errors in his pieces due to playing piano in front of someone he doesn't normally play for, and therefore might have felt really awkward as a result, causing mistakes and tension in his playing. And how unprofessional to comment on another teacher's 'work' so to speak, especially in a 'one-off' lesson, unless of course, the clarinet teacher is 'touting for business', which is equally unprofessional. I know we're not always perfect as teachers but I think that clarinet teacher was way out of line there. (I almost wish he/she was a forum member so he/she could read all these comments!!!!)

Lovely support, as usual. Thanks everyone.

The boy concerned is 10 and quite a talented boy, but his mother always waits in the room with us and comments as the lesson progresses. I assume the list was made by the clarinet teacher, and mentioned such things as 'this note should be staccato', and this phrase should be softer, etc. The dynamics are, to a great extent, musically interpreted by this child, and I see no reason to change them if they sound good when he plays, anyway.

I'm feeling a bit better today, thankyou.

(posted in error - hit tab button instead of caps off!)

I agree CD - except you can take out the "almost" !!

The mother was also way out of line, as others have said.

Pleased to read you are feeling a bit better Nannyjay, and sorry you have had to put up with this unacceptable episode - especially when you are feeling less than 100%.

Being in the same room may be ok if you are happy with it, but CERTAINLY NOT if she interrupts the lesson !!
*looks fierce*

take good care of yourself!

Glad to hear you are feeling better today, Nannyjay. You can do without this sort of parent when you are not in the best of health - or at any other time. I certainly wouldn't have her in the same room - does she stay because it's not practical to go home? Your results show that you are a good teacher and that the boy responds to you well. As a teacher I would certainly not knowingly take a pupil from another teacher for a one-off lesson unless they were thinking of changing teachers, and even then I would not make specific comments about the child's playing, whatever I thought!

When you are feeling more yourself you need to make it clear that you do not appreciate her interference - a very difficult thing to do, but if you don't it will keep niggling at you, and by phone would be a good idea, at a time when the boy isn't around.

Hope your health continues to improve.

.

Some teachers prefer parents staying in the room. It means they can help with practice and it often guarantees solid progress. My mother stayed till I was about 11, and when I observed a violin lesson at the Guildhall Junior Strings, the mother (of an 11-year-old) was there sitting quietly taking notes.

There is nothing wrong with this as long as the pupil and teacher feel free enough to build up a good relationship regardless of her presence, and as long as the mother keeps 100% quiet throughout the duration of the lesson. I cannot emphasise this strongly enough. The tiniest comment from the parent during the lesson is the grossest intrusion and must be nipped in the bud from the outset, otherwise you are being thoroughly undermined as a teacher.

So you must tell her in no uncertain terms that from now on she must keep absolutely silent during lessons. She may take notes and ask questions at the end if time, but she must not comment on your teaching style or methods. You must also make it clear that the son should be working towards being able to practise on his own.

She has picked you as a teacher therefore she has entrusted his learning to you. She must behave as if she respects this, otherwise no proper student/teacher relationship can develop, to the detriment of his learning.

Grrrr!

Violinia

Does she follow him to school and sit in class as well?

Now that appeals to my sense of humour!

Steve

So pleased to hear you're feeling better Nannyjay - that will help you decide rationally how you want to move this forward. Personally, I should write keeping a copy (so there's no disagreement later on what was said) setting out your irritations about the clarinet teacher being invited (without your consent) to comment on your pupil's playing, setting out what you have achieved with/for him and what you hope to achieve in the future. Who knows what she told the clarinet teacher to get them to give him a lesson - it may not actually be their fault. They may have been trying to help and possibly had no idea that their comments would be given straight back to you?

I would also state that after Christmas (ie the start of a new year/term), now he's 10+ in age, you feel it's no longer necessary for him to have any parent in the room during his lesson. You will teach him 1:1 privately.

If you set these thoughts out clearly to her, she can decide what she wants to do. You may find she backs off, she may withdraw him from lessons. If you don't want the latter, then I guess you'll have to give in to her trying to get you to do what she wants and not what you want.

Sometimes, I think however talented, these types of parently pushed pupils can be a nightmare, sadly because of their parent(s), very rarely because of the child. I take a balanced view on whether I want the hassle that goes with them or not and act accordingly.

I just try to remember that, whilst they may be paying me, the parents don't rule me. After all, I don't pay my dentist and then do the job for him by getting the views of another dentist too. Why allow them to give you the run-around? Stand your ground where you want and need to, in order to establish your teaching in a way you feel comfortable.

Best of luck whatever and hope you continue to recover.

That reminds me of a friend of mine who once commented on a rather over- gung-ho breast-feeding mother acquaintance: I expect she'll be hovering at the university entrance offering him a quick suck before he says goodbye.

LOL!!!

Violinia

I want bitty... .

Oh goodness, I thought anti extended breastfeeding comments were the domain of parenting websites.

Please don't get me wrong by the way - I'm pro prolonged breastfeeding myself and into all things natural etc etc, but not if you do it in an earnest way with big boots and dungarees on!!!

Violinia

Sorry, very off-topic but needed to clear that one up.

This is not quite the same thing but as its sort of a parents thing and I need somewhere to scream....

Just had a chat to an 8 year old girl and her father about practice (or lack of) and suggested that they might look at this as a family to try to get her about 10 minutes on at least 5 days a week. Have spoken to the girl about this in the fathers presence more than once so actively involved him this time.
She seems to enjoy lessons but is not a very confident child.

Half way through the lesson I found out that she has begun to have lessons at school as well, the teacher at school is using the same book and has marked (in pencil) dates of learning some of the pieces.
Apparently she was to have started on guitar but somehow is having piano lessons instead.
I have told the father that 2 teachers is not a good idea (especially in view of the small amount of practice she does) and that they will need to decide which teacher they want to stick with.

As it is plain form her book that she already has a teacher I am rather annoyed at the teacher she sees in school (parents don't always realise that this is not really done).

I've had that on more than one occasion - the only time it ever really worked was when the other teacher and I used different books - I used Schaum (which he already had) and she used Me and My Piano) so we were setting him different work, and I was trying to concentrate more on rhythm too. Not recommended though (having 2 teachers, I mean!)

Yes, I'd agree with sbhoa that 2 teachers with such a small amount of practice going on anyway isn't a good idea. In defence of the teacher at school, one problem is that you just don't have the control over students you take on that you have as a private teacher-all my private students come to me by way of a chat on the phone first, a consultation lesson, and so on. School students just get referred via the school office-and there generally isn't the contact with the parents. That certainly has its advantages in some ways-you don't get the tricky problems highlighted in some of the posts above-but on the other hand you don't get the chance to iron out potential issues before lessons start.

This tends to happen with rather dim sort of parents who think more is always better.

Violinia

I find the opposite. I welcome a parent's active involvement and do the best I can to include any attending parent in the entertainment. At best, they will be able to help with their child's practise with confidence; they know that I will correct gently and kindly when they get something wrong. At worst, I have their full support even when they are clueless.

I read threads here and often think, "Thank goodness I do not suffer parents like these" and put it down to living in an 'old fashioned' area. I do this until I talk to fellow teachers who suffer exactly the same problems with parents as those described so many times on these forums.

So, what makes the difference? Perhaps it is because I involve parents so openly and actively. Perhaps it is because I have such vast experience and confidence that I do not expect to have problems. Maybe these problems try to manifest themselves but I bulldoze them because I simply do not notice them

It seems to me that too many contributors to these forums regard parents as a problem. I regard them as a resource. Perhaps that is the difference.

Steve

lol at breastfeeding whilst wearing dungarees.

Speaking from a parents point of view. My daughter wanted to start learning the cello at the age of 6, and knowing as a non musical parent I wouldnt be able to help her with her practice, I asked the teacher if it was ok to attend her lessons in school. It helps that I work in my daughters school anyway. She was more than happy with this. I sit at the back and observe, and try and remember what she tells her to practice etc. otherwise i am sure she would not have remembered at this age.
After 2 school years of lessons she has just passed Grade 3, and her teacher welcomes my support. She has often said she wishes more parents would take more of an interest, as she feels sure my support has enabled my daughter to progess so well.
Before anyone says anything, I am not a pushy parent, and I do not comment in the lessons, just want to take an interest in her playing. Now at the age of 8, I am wondereing whether to stop going, as my daughter is now old enough to take responsibility for what she has to practice, and has far more musicall knowledge than me anyway!!!


Speaking from a parents point of view. My daughter wanted to start learning the cello at the age of 6, and knowing as a non musical parent I wouldnt be able to help her with her practice, I asked the teacher if it was ok to attend her lessons in school. It helps that I work in my daughters school anyway. She was more than happy with this. I sit at the back and observe, and try and remember what she tells her to practice etc. otherwise i am sure she would not have remembered at this age.
After 2 school years of lessons she has just passed Grade 3, and her teacher welcomes my support. She has often said she wishes more parents would take more of an interest, as she feels sure my support has enabled my daughter to progess so well.
Before anyone says anything, I am not a pushy parent, and I do not comment in the lessons, just want to take an interest in her playing. Now at the age of 8, I am wondereing whether to stop going, as my daughter is now old enough to take responsibility for what she has to practice, and has far more musicall knowledge than me anyway!!!

Have recovered from Wednesday's annoyance now....
Yesterday a 7 year old boy coming for his 3rd ever lesson had written 'thank you, it's fun' in his notebook and promised me front row tickets when he is famous. The girl who came after him brought me a christmas biscuit from her after school club and played the best she ever has along with the duet part.... the grin on her face when it just worked was wonderful and matched by the one on mine I think.

Cute!

I don't have an issue with parental involvement all the time their involvement isn't disruptive. Surely the best that a parent can do is to be supportive of their child's music-making, even (or especially) if they aren't musical themselves.

Pupil's mum sometimes sits in on lessons. They are obviously close, (but not still at the breastfeeding stage ), and whilst I'm heartened to see how close they are, she can sometimes be a bit disruptive. I've found that scales are enough to send her off to a book, and that if it's summer I can successfully shunt her into the garden.

I wonder if nannyjay's pupil's clarinet teacher was tricked into making comments on the child's piano playing, or if he/she really is touting for business. Must ostracise them from the clarinet community if the latter...

As for two teachers for the same instrument, there was a thread about it a while ago, and it was generally agreed that it isn't a good idea.

That's great, sbhoa!

That occurred to me too. Maybe the child's mother said to the clarinet teacher that his piano teacher was ill and the clarinet offered to help in the meantime. I'm sure the clarinet teacher wouldn't like someone interfering with his student.

This boy took his Grade 4 exam today. He also took Grade 4 flute today.

He rang me to tell me how he got on, and said that he had done wonderfully well. I questioned him further, and he said all three pieces were perfect, scales were beautifully played, aurals were excellent and the sight reading was easy. Hmm. Nothing like self-confidence is there?

Update on Grade 4 exam for this boy - distinction with 134 marks, so he was probably right, and everything was well performed. I'm really pleased, but also feel a bit peeved that he did so well when his mother was obviously questioning my teaching.

Hopefully she will stop questioning it now.

Yes - let's hope this gives her the answer she needs!

An excellent result Nannyjay - well done to you and your pupil. Mine all passed this time, but apart from one vg theory result, marks (for practicals) were well down on the usual level.

Remembering a previous post of a few months ago when you wondered whether you should still be teaching - hope your pupil's result gives you a resounding YES !!

You are absolutely right, Maggie, it does make it all worthwhile doesn't it, and I think when I posted that item about retirement I was just having a senior moment.

I have only come recently to these forums, but I have felt so much kindness and support from everyone, thank you all.

Well done to you and your pupil, nannyjay - that was a great result.

AAAGH!! Here we go again.
7 year old boy who started 2 months ago just turned up for the third week running without books (apparently mum tidied the bedroom and his music book is on top of the wardrobe!!) .
Had words with both him and his dad and also wrote a note on the paper with his practice instructions on.
Normally I have the books people are using but in this case I had agreed to let him use one which he already had to start with.
Hope this does not continue after christmas!

Spend whatever time you would doing aural, theory etc. and then send him home. I think missing out on a chunk of lesson should concentrate his parents minds.

Yes, having a whole lesson (or whole lessons) of aural and theory, with no playing, may make him remember his music next time.

I get the same kind of excuses - the cleaner moved it, etc. I've had some interesting ones over the years! One was really strange - we've just moved house and can't find which room the piano is in!!! Is the house really that big???!!!

Electric piano perhaps? Legs removed, keyboard packed into its box for the move and still in it?? Under the bed? Behind the wardrobe?