I just wanted to rant about teachers who waste time during lessons!!!! Half an hour is short enough but can really fly when all the teacher does is chatter. I teach but have been progressing through my piano grades with another teacher. My specialism is singing. Anyway, she has a cat and we literally spend most of the lesson with me listening to her talk about what the cat has been through this week! At my last half an hour lesson, i did not touch one note on the piano until 20 past the hour which left me with 10 minutes worth of lesson time!! lol.
How can i resolve this as it really is ridiculous. I don't engage in the conversation as much as i used to but i feel really rude if i don't show an interest in what she is saying about the cat. I personally am not a cat person and the cat often jumps onto the piano stool whilst i'm sitting on it! where she'll spend another 5 minute talking baby talk to it! lol.
It really bothers me as being a teacher myself, i work the full length of the session with my students and it annoys that there are teachers out there who waste peoples time and money!
i know this has gone on for years and i just wanted to say to parents, beware of teachers who waste time. Make sure that you ask your child what they have done in their music lessons!!

In a nice way, you've got to tell the cat loving teacher to do what you pay her for. A parent always accompanies a pupil to my lessons, they get 20 seconds or so of small talk whilst they're coming in and then it's down to business.

I hope you sort it out!

And so it should bother you sparkle1980. Nothing wrong with talking about the cat (or anything else like that, for that matter) just before you start, and just after the lesson has finished (conversations like that are often part of a good pupil-teacher relationship), but if cat conversation is taking up 20 minutes of a 30 minute lesson, then there's something wrong. You pay for her to teach you piano, not to talk about what her cat has done! My suspicion is that your piano teacher is a friendly sort, I'd talk to her about it (in a pleasant way), and see how it goes from there. As I said, nothing wrong with talking about cats before and after the lesson, but the 30 minutes piano lesson time should be about learning about the piano, not cats.
I'm sure the forum would be very interested in how this goes - it'd be great if you can keep us all updated!

I used to gain very profitably from a "fellow" organ/piano teacher in the town, not a million miles from me, who would set her pupils a little keyboard task, then disappear with a cheery "be back in a minute".
One of her pupils (now mine) became quite concerned at her prolonged abscence one evening, and cautiously began to look for her. He discovered her in another room, feet up on the sofa, cup in hand, watching "Coronation Street"

Same teacher gave each of her pupils a moments notice that she was "retiring" and going to live in Spain (which, I'm told, she hasn't to this day)

She charged (up to 2004) £22 per hour and £12 half hour for the privilege of her "time"

IT MAKES ME SO CROSS

I am known to natter, but I try to keep it confined to the subject in hand. Often students need a minute or two break before run throughs, to help with stamina.

The one time I did bring my cat into a lesson, was when I had a piano student learning "Sleeping Cat" for Grade 1. I encouraged my feline friendly student to stroke him, and use that gentle stroking rhythm in her interpretation.

Gandalf (my cat) was rather non-plussed, but the student got 28/30 for the piece in her exam.

The other thing I do in lessons is listen. Often letting a student unburden, opens up a whole new approach to their playing/singing.

Talk in lessons is vital. But non lesson stuff I try to keep to the time when I'm writing out receipts at the beginning or end of the lesson.


Oh and if I do wander around the room to access some relevant material (or grab a drink of water from the kitchen), I am always listening, and ready to comment about what I've just heard.

What! That's outrageous! I don't even answer the phone if it rings during a pupil's lesson.

Barry's right, the brief conversations at the start and end (and occasionally in the middle) of a lesson are valuable in getting to know pupils - if the youngsters mention that they're bogged down with maths homework I know not to expect too much practice to have been done. Similarly, one of my adults was worried about her son at her last lesson, as he'd just split up with his girlfriend. I think she felt better just having someone independent to talk to about it.

But 2/3 of a lesson? Not even I talk that much!

Hmm - I agree with Deborah. Your teacher sounds really nice, friendly - but - a lesson is a lesson. I have a couple of adult students who like to chat - sometimes it's relevant to the lesson anyway and that's ok to some extent. If we chat about other things, I feel I have to give the lesson-time in addition to the chatting-time. If I haven't got flexibility with time I tactfully mention it and try to move on.

It is important to listen though, because your pupil's emotional state will affect what they are trying to do. I try to allow a couple of minutes at the start to show an interest in the person I'm seeing - it is helpful to be aware if they've had a difficult week for some reason, or conversely something they 've achieved or are pleased with.

My cat doesn't often come in when I'm teaching - although some of the little ones love it if she does.

Depending on the time of day, I may answer the phone in a lesson, but will normally let it go to answerphone. However if I think it could be my husband telling me that he can't pick up the kids, then I do answer it. I keep time on the phone to a minimum, and if its someone who can ring back later, they are told i'm teaching this is not a good time" and if necessary I'll put the phone down.

That really isn't good enough, Sparkle 1980. 30 minutes isn't long enough for a music lesson. My cat often sleeps in the room when I'm teaching. When he's not there, my little students ask where he is. I'll say he's sleeping or in the garden and get on with the lesson. I never answer the phone during lessons and my mobile is always on silent when I'm teaching. The only time I have ever left a student at the piano was to run out to the car to get an aural/sight-reading book which I'd been using in school earlier in the day.

I think it's fine to chat for a few minutes at the start of a lesson and when a student seems to want to talk longer, sometimes I think it is a delaying tactic to avoid something that hasn't been done. If the chatter continues more than a few minutes, I look at the notebook and say 'would you like to start with scales or theory today?' - - and get on with the lesson. Perhaps you could try something like that. When your teacher starts talking about the cat, you could say 'yes, my neigbours cat does that too. I found the fingering in .... rather difficult this week, or I wasn't sure how to do.... or could you show me how to.... ' That might get the lesson back on track! If not then you really need to talk to her - or change teacher. You probably aren't as cheeky as me, but when it came to half past, I'd tell her that we only stopped discussing your cat 10 minutes ago, I have another 20 minutes lesson time to get.

Good luck! I hope you get this resolved.

I had a trumpet teacher rather like that. He used to start talking while i was getting my trumpet out of its case, and he would talk for a long way into the lesson. Only once i think though did i actually not play the trumpet at all. He was rather a chatterer! I had my lessons at school though so there was nothing i could change, and because of my scholarship, i dont actually pay for my lessons...so i felt i couldnt really say anything.

I had one singing lesson, however, the other way round. (again at school). I walked into the lesson quite upset (having just been dumped) and when my teacher asked if i was alright, i burst into tears. We spent the whole lesson talking, me crying quite alot, and no singing done at all. she seemed fine with all that, and i felt a lot better after. I am quite close to my singing teacher though and we talk alot, but it doesnt affect my singing. in fact i think it helps because i'm much more relaxed than i am with my trumpet teacher who never natters to me. I've gone from grade 3 to 7 (not a boasting post, i promise!) in the 2 years she's taught me, so i sont think the nattering has a detrimental affect.

Sorry i've gone on quite a bit here!

I think you really should talk to your teacher about this - if i was paying for my lessons i would definitely want to get what i was paying for - and with 2/3 of a lesson talking, you arent. xxx

I think it's important to show an interest in the pupil - ask how the ballet exam, or football match, or Brownie enrolment went for just a few moments while they get their instrument and music out. But generally, they don't want to hear the teacher's news, they've come to do music, and that's what's being paid for.
I don't have a cat, but often get them to turn around and face the goldfish when we're doing aural so that they can't see the keyboard.

I agree with noodle, try subtle things first before doing anything direct or more confrontational. Think of a few tricks that links 'cats' to 'piano' - i.e. 'my friend has a really cute cat.... and he/she (friend, and not cat) plays this piece like this, what do you think etc...'.

Yeah, totally agree. It's nice to show an interest, but only briefly, then move swiftly on into the lesson.

My hour-long lessons usually take at least a couple of hours, due to this. But then, we both know I don't have much else to do so it ain't a problem!

(I wouldn't do it myself with pupils, though...)

Yes you do.

I think katyjay and I probably set the record for talking through the largest proportion of lesson time.

Ouch!

At least you learnt how to assemble a clarinet though...

I'm just teasing. You were fab, especially when it took me 2/3 of a lesson to make a sound out of the bloomin' thing.

No that's my bad habit. Ask Deborah, I really can talk!

Aaah, Noodle - that's so sweet!

I have a lesson tonight! I shall update you all....

Umm find another teacher!

Had that been me, I would have made her keep going for a further 20 mins after she decided to start teaching me or I would have split the cost of that lesson into 3 and only paid her for 10 minutes.

Or I would have put a stop to her chit chat STRAIGHT AWAY. It's not rude when you are paying someone to do a job adn they aren't doing it. When she starts on about the cat, say "I don't particularly like cats, so now onto my piano lesson please". She'll never do it again.

However true that is, I think you'd have to start looking for another teacher if you said that! I think it would sound rude and while the rudeness might be taken in an office or workplace as just abruptness, being told that in any situation (especially if the person was younger than you) would just irritate the other person! If that was said, it would be like what happens all the time in schools - teacher can make a cutting but accurate comment to pupil and be seen as good with discipline, but pupil can't say a similar thing back to the teacher without getting some kind of punishment or reprimand.

Be polite as far as possible - let us know how you get on tonight, Sparkle!

The 1:1 relationship of a music teacher and his/her pupil is such a special one and the sensitive teacher recognises those few occasions when a pupil needs to talk to, possibly, the only person in their life who's got time to listen.

I try to be alert to the needs of my students on the (fairly rare) occasions when that happens and I think that there is a time and place when you just have to be the "listener" if you're going to make any musical progress at all in a lesson. However, there is also the opportunity to abuse this by "chatting" about anything under the sun and using up the time (IMHO unprofessionally) in doing so.

So, like others, I tend to have a short settling in moment as pupils change over, get music out etc and then it's down to business. However, if that needs to change in the course of the lesson because of the pupil's needs, well so be it. Basically, I'm a there to teach not be a counselling service but sometimes I do wonder if my pupils think it's the other way round .....

Oboist

My violin teacher is the same He always runs overtime so as to make up for the time he's talked but sometimes I have to leave on time so get 5 or 10 minutes :-( Once, he talked for the full half hour whilst I stood with violin iin hand I had to be somewhere so when 30 minutes passed said "ive really got to go now" Funny now but I was furious at the time because its a good 20-25 minute drive to get to his house

He didn't charge me though

I had my lesson folks..it was better in the way that i did one sight reading exercise, showed 2 major scales, 2 arpeggios and two broken chords! lol

I can't say the things i know i should say to her. By the way, we do have a bit of history. She taught me when i was about 10 and 16 years on i've gone back to her!
I think it's too late to say anything. So i'm going to practice very very hard in my own time and get through my grades. Humph!

Same sort of thing with my old guitar teacher. We chatted, read the Sun, he'd go and get coffee, and we'd maybe do a song. That was about it. I stopped in the end, lessons were £50 a term, for ten lessons at half an hour each. Just not worth it...

Not to say he wasn't a good chap, he was a good teacher, he just never got round to it...

I disagree totally. It's not rude, it's justifiable.

If you pay for a service you should get your money's worth. I would say something if I was paying £15-£20 for a half hour lesson to have 20 minutes of that time being taken up by the teacher talking about her effing cat. Would you pay to hear somebody talk about their cat?

I work in the legal profession and the firms charge rate for my services is £150 per hour. Before you ask, my salary does NOT reflect my charge rate. My firm charges clietns £150 an hour for my services but my salary works out at £7.50 an hour after tax :-(

Anyway, my point is, supposing you came in for a consultation about a legal problem and you booked a half hour slot. The charge for that 30 minutes would be £75. If I were to talk about my pets or my own problems for 20 minutes and then deal with your problem for only 10 minutes would you not protest to me and indeed complain about paying £75 for that session? I would hope you would!

Why is a music lesson any different: paying money to hear about your teachers cat for goodness sake! It is not rude to say something. The teacher should do the job they're being paid to do and to expect complaints if they don't. You can cut them off politely: "oh that's nice ... so anyway, I had this problem during practice and I'd like to run thru it today." However you do it CUT THEM OFF when they start talking about the cat.

Would you pay to hear somebody talk about their cat?

I would if it was Billy Connolly...

What's stopping you from simply addressing the issue square-on? If you are paying her for her time then you have both entered into a contract and if she is chit-chatting about the cat for twenty minutes then I am afraid that doesn't form part of the contract. You don't have to be horrible about it but you might try something like 'I've noticed that I don't get to spend much time at the piano when I am with you because you talk about your cat so much and I'd really like my time to be about my piano lesson' or whatever.

I guess a lot of us are a bit frightened of saying what the truth is but if you don't then I suspect you will become frustrated.Also, perhaps she needs to know in case she doesn't realise how much she rambles about the cat. Also, what would happen if one of your pupils did that? I'm sure you would have no problem telling them. Perhaps you feel your teacher is more powerful than you but she isn't really. You're the one with the money!!

Please say something. If you just let it go, it could very well build inside of you until it really does affect your relationship with her, and then you'll wish you had just nipped it in the bud to begin with. Maybe, your teacher thinks you like to "unwind" before a lesson begins and actually thinks she's doing you a favor! I think you really should clear this up. There's been some nice suggestions on how to do it without being offensive. Even saying, "Since we didn't get to my pieces last lesson, I was thinking we should start with those right off the bat today before I forget what I wanted to ask you about them," or something like that. You can come up with a slightly different approach each week until she gets the point, and you wouldn't even need to attack the issue head on then.

My teacher's phone is always going... we had one lesson where he answered a call (in the same room - so I couldn't even practice my pieces during it), finally put the phone down, then just as I was starting to play, the phone goes again... It's a bit irritating, as is the woman who comes after my lesson with her son and always appears early, lets herself in and then loudly announces her arrival, said teacher disappears to make sure she's ok, got a drink and the TV/paper etc (er, hello? I've still got 15 mins of my lesson left...?!)
In my other lessons, I'm the naughty one who talks all the time - my flute teacher basically now has to shut me up so we can actually play something!!

I have an adult pupil and we do spend a fair bit of time on chatting - BUT I give her nearly an hour of my time, and only charge her for 30 minutes, as I make sure I do 30 minutes proper teaching at least, and regard the rest of the time as friend to friend chat.
It's not only teachers either - a number of the younger pupils always want to tell me what they've done over the weekend, what they're doing this next weekend, what their rabbit got up to etc etc etc ........ and it's sometimes very difficult to get them to stop chattering and start working!!!!

Yes, my ex-piano teacher wasted so many of my lesson. She's always looking for the spelling of a word or whatever....and like spend 5 or 10 minutes searching for that word....

my previous teacher was a disaster...

He used to sit at the piano and play his compositons...
It was like "ok great .. may i now play my pieces?!"
plus chatting about his fiancee and the pair of shoes he brought to her and she didn't like them...

As a bird lover and founder member of the Cats Are Vermin Society , I'd say that this person needs help! I mean, what do cats do that's so interesting? Sleep, eat, catch birds, make a noise if their food's run out. That's it, apart from some other actions unmentionable on a polite forum.

I'd look for a new teacher. My old teacher's cat used to come into the room during my lesson, but the teacher used to do the decent thing and "shoo" it out straightaway.

Edward

Letting the cat in during a lesson, or answering the phone for 30 seconds can be kept under control. Some lessons, repertoire planning sessions and exam post mortems depend on conversation, just aslong as during the rest of the lesson you're focused on your pupils playing/singing.

Also the way I tend to teach theory means that pupils work on excercises between lessons. I have to talk about ehat they are both about to do, and how they can improove... but that's not quite the same as what was on Eastenders!

I did have a pupil distracted by the headline of the newspaper sitting on the table. It turned out she knew the youngman killed in the road-accident featured in the Headline. Still had a good singing lesson.

Just a suggestion Sparkle - could you develop an "allergy" to the cat, you know scratch, scratch, sneeze, sneeze - make up a bit of a story to go with it, and ask very politely, and rather regretfully!!! if the cat could remain outside the room during your lessons!

It's a perfectly possible scenario, - my piano teacher had to remove a bowl of flowers which were on top of her piano when I had a piano lesson once because I had really bad hayfever and just could not stop sneezing. She always remembered to clear out the flowers before I started my lesson after that. And my daughter has asthma and wheezes a bit when her violin teacher's dog gets a bit close.

It's quite hard to assert your rights when you've known someone for a long time and a situation has developed, but I do think you have a right to at least 27 minutes proper tuition out of every half hour.

I would yell her very politely that you don't feel that you are working as hard as you would like to during your lessons with her. Ask if you could bring a recording machine to the following lesson as you feel that it will help you to racall all that she tells you, and them do so. This may be enough of a wake-up call for her. Just noticed that I wrote "yell" and not "tell"! I prefer the mistake!

This is a great idea. My voice teacher records her lessons for all her students. I certainly wouldn't talk once the recorder has been turned on, I don't want to hear my idle chatter when I get home.

Wonder if youngests Flute Teacher would fall for this? Not that she wastes time. She just keeps reminidng my girl about things that she's never told her about in the first place! Being a respectful 11 year old she looks confused and keeps her mouth shut. Doubt it will last when she gets to High School.

I can think of 2 or 3 pupils like this- one of my adult pupils and I do spend some of the time chatting-but they are the last lesson of the evening, and always end up with at least an hour, so do get well over 30 minutes teaching time and are only charged for 30 minutes. I also have a teenage student who leads a very frantic social life and is very keen to tell me what has happened during the week-I have to tactfully but firmly bring her back to playing her pieces!

Half an hour a week is little enough.. I don't know how that is sufficient contact to sustain a week of practice!

The student needs time to THINK and time to PLAY. Discussion and digression need to be managed. Questions need to be deferred.

All except one of my private students have half an hour a week-with the exception of one adult who has half an hour a fortnight due to work committments. And in state schools, half an hour is actually an unusually long lesson time-20 minutes or even 15 is the norm in some places!
It should be enough to set up effective practicing during the week-if they're practicing properly which is another topic in itself.
Coming back to the discussion during lessons issue-I find students do value the one to one teaching, and you do get times when they want to 'get something off their chest' -I think the relationship in individual teaching is so vital to their progress-but obviously the original situation where the progress of the cat takes preference over the progress of the music is going much too far!

From a teachers perspective, I'm in the process of getting a recording machine for my use, and, with pupils prior permission, would be very interested to listen back to lessons, to help me get the level of chat right.

The times I really can't stand are when, with the best will in the world, family interupt lessons. The kids are meant to be in bed asleep, but occasionally I find myself having to deal with them. Ironically, my pupils play better when they don't think my attention is on them, but I still would like it if other family members would remember that people are paying for my time, not my lack of attention due to patching up nosebleeds.

Even given that, my pupils are generally happy. A quick hello to the cat does no harm, paying cat more attention than pupil is a no no. My oboe teacher's cat used to sit on my feet when I was playing. I liked the homely non-treatening environment of her lessons, and hope that that is what I offer my pupils too.

The norm of lesson lengths in my area is (state schools);

Primary School - 7.5 minutes
Lower Secondary School (age 11-14) - 15 minutes
GCSE (age 14-16) - 20 minutes
A Level/Sixth Form - 30 minutes

This is all irrespective of standard so I was meant to be learning piecers of grade 8 standard last year in lower school with 15 minutes per week!

When I had violin lessons at school I had 20 minutes a week up to grade 8 and beyond...

W

Wow-7.5 minutes-it must be hardly enough time to take a woodwind instrument out of its case and tune it! I didn't know time slots of even less than 15 minutes existed.
I meant to add before that in my experience, the 15 minutes on piano works fine for very young children, in a small school where they don't have to walk very far to the room and can come straight in and get on with the lesson. I do find though that when they get to approx grade 1, and especially when exams start looming, that they need to be extra conscientious practicers, (or have especially supportive parents) as their practice needs to be even more productive than usual to get the most out of such a short time. As my only state
school is primary, I don't encounter the issue of short lessons and more advanced students.

I had to share my 15 minutes of music lesson at school with another player....who was better than me and so got the lion's share, right up to my grade 5. However, that was about 100 years ago, and I would hope things were generally better now.
When teaching, I try to keep chat to discussions relating to the music - a bit of background or comparison with other pieces. I avoid going down the personal-problems route as my proper job involves far too much of that sort of thing already.
When I'm being taught, chat also revolves around the music, only rarely venturing into other fields, but it is still relaxed and interesting.