She says she wants to learn, and I'd love her to, but only once she's ready. She is 4 years old and starts primary school in september. She is very bright and can read well, she also enjoys music and has good pitch, and can identify some piano keys.

Should I wait till she's older?
What are the best teaching techniques for children so young?
If I should wait then is there anything I can do to keep her interest/prime her for lessons etc.?

We're based near Amersham so if there are any local teachers who specialise in teaching youngsters then it would be great to hear from you.

I don't think that there is a 'one size fits all' answer to this.
Some children will do very well starting at this age while others may be better starting at 7 or 8.
If you can contact local teachers to ask it would be better and some may suggest a trial period to see how it goes.

Hi

Our son started piano when he was 9 and got his grade 8 (distinction) at 14, so there doesn't have to be any great rush.

If you don't mind me going off at a slight tangent ...

The more you expose your daughter to live music over the next year or so, the more her brain will get wired for music. I won't bother you with all the neurology (unless you want me to) but exposure to live (not recorded, live) music in the first five or six years of a child's life equips them to learn music as a language and greatly facilitates their chances of becoming a musician.

Best wishes

barry

NB that doesn't mean that every infant who is exposed to live music will become a musician or that infants who have no such exposure cannot become musicians - it's more a question of increasing the likelihood of a particular outcome.

At four she will be quite small to manage most of the full-size instruments but some come in half and in quarter sizes especially for little students. She might enjoy playing a stringed instrument and it is possible to find both violins and cellos in small sizes. She might really enjoy a recorder too and could them move on to another woodwind more easily at a later stage, or might stay with recorders and love them. The alternative would be to find a good childrens' music making group for her where they will sing, play percussion instruments and learn all sorts of things about music in a relaxed and fun way. At four she is probably a bit too small for a piano.

I started piano at that age and loved it. What is important is that you, as her parent can support and encourage her. My mother could play the piano - we obviously had one at home, so I was already familiar with the instrument. She took me along to a piano teacher a couple of times, to watch a child of similar age have a lesson, to see if I was happy with it.

I would say that if she is keen, go ahead - the teacher Fanny Waterman used to say that not all child prodigy's become great musicians, but nearly alll great musicans used to be child prodigys.

I agree with the comment that you try to find a children's music group run by a music teacher and musician with lots of singing and moving to teach basic musical concepts. Alternatively find a piano teacher who understands about teaching young children and who will use lots of singing games in a piano lesson. I am a piano teacher and teach young ones through singing and moving, playing by ear the simple songs we have learned. I would suggest you avoid people who want to teach beginners of any age from notation on day / month one. Incidentially I am also about to set up pre-instrumental groups for young children (I'm not in your area), but you may be able to find a local teacher who already runs such a thing or who wants to set one up. Good luck. When you are ready to move onto notation there is an excellent tutor book called Dogs and Birds, available at www.dogsandbirds.co.uk

I had my first piano lesson two months before my 6th birthday. It does depend on the child , but I'd have thought that was about the right time for most children. Some instruments, aprticulalry violin could be started a bit earlier with a small instrument.
First Organ lesson , I was about 12 , ie earliest I could reach the pedals. I was about Grade 5 stage on the piano by then.

It really does depend on the child, and their level of concentration. I was taught standard method ie notation, right from the start. In primary school where there was a lot of clapping and singing, I found it patronizing, although I'm sure many other children enjoyed it.

I learnt to read music at the same time as I learnt to read. Therefore I have no recollection of learning to read music as a painful experience. I really do believe you have to judge each child independently - as their mother/father, you can more easily judge what they are capable of.

What confused me for a while that when I started (at almost 6) in 1953, my teacher taught the old English piano fingering of + 1 2 3 4, whereas for many years now we have used 1 2 3 4 5.
I never really got it sorted until about Grade 4
I guess this system was completely abandoned by about 1960. Anyone old enough to remember it ?

I remember the English fingerings. I had an old book of Mother's that was full of them and I used to play around with it from a very young age, just playing by numbers. I quite like the idea of a cross for thumb. Pity in a way that everyone decided to opt for continental fingering and not English.

Children as young as this can certainly manage and can make progress, but you need to be careful that you're not killing something that could be a "runner" in a few years' time, when she's a little bit older, and would find it a lot easier. It all depends on the child, the parent and the teacher, and the expectations that each has with regard to practice and progress. Combining taking it easy/making it fun, with establishing routine and self-discipline is the tricky bit! I've taught a few at 4 or 5; the pain barrier can come when they get past the stage of learning two or three simple pieces a week. The question for the teacher then is "Do we stick at this level for a while till he/she has more maturity, or we try moving on a bit and risk putting him/her off by sitting on the same (harder) piece for a while? But with careful management I've seen very young children do very well and thoroughly enjoy it.

I agree wholeheartedly with barcarolle here.

While I am sure it is perfectly possible to teach a child of this age to play the piano, I would be much happier to see this age group having QUALITY music education away from an instrument (not just the 'clapping and singing' that Bing found patronising).

Both Kodály and Dalcroze approaches are brilliant for teaching musical concepts through the voice and the body so if you can find a class run by someone trained in either/both of these approaches then please go for it! We teach both to 4-6 year-olds on the String Training Programme at the Guildhall on Saturdays and they have a profound effect upon the child's later musical development.

Barry Thain is so right, too, when he points out the effect of LIVE music on the young child. Singing activates the inner hearing, too - an invaluable part of a musician's development.

I also agree with barcarolle regarding teachers who would teach solely through notation at this stage (even if your child is a good reader, as you say).

In Hungary children are able to sing a two-part piece with another child and can sight-sing pentatonic melodies in solfa before they ever touch an instrument...they think we are very strange trying to teach instruments before a child is musically literate away from one !

If you are going to consider Suzuki.......it can be WONDERFUL.

That is, if the teacher and your daughter work together well.

Other teachers can also be wonderful!

Explore local options....www.musicteachers.co.uk can help you, as could local libraries, music shops etc.

My 5 kids started formal lessons early on and it was the best thing we ever did - it makes their brains grow!

If you have access to kodaly/dalcroze, this is great stuff too.

I started piano age 5, on the understanding that if the teacher thought I wasn't up to it yet, I'd stop having lessons till I was older. He said he generally didn't take pupils under 6 but he'd give me a trial and see how it went. Haven't looked back but it depends on the individual and their capability to concentrate... and also if you can find a teacher willing to take on someone so young.

I have a couple of books that my grandfather had - and yes, the fingering is + 1234 which took me a long time to work out - I originally thought all the +s were an old way of asking for a mordent!!!! And I was thinking that surely Mozart didn't use so many mordents in his piano sonatas........

There's some great advice here and I don't really have any to add, except to reiterate that if your daughter waits a year or two for piano lessons, she will probably progress more quickly. But I thought you might like to see my profile picture, taken when my daughter was 9 months old. She loves thumping away on my piano - but is really entranced by the clarinet!

I started playing the piano at that age but gave up six months after and only returned to it when I was 11. I think it was because the teacher didn't interest me enough. I know teachers that play musical games to keep the lessons fun with kids. I would let her start lessons (as I wish, wish, wish I had carried on when I was four!) but you may have to try out a few teachers before you find one she enjoys lessons with.
Just make sure she's enjoying the lessons and having a good time! :)

I started piano lessons 1 month before my 3rd birthday and have been in lessons ever since. I think as long as she wants to and you can find a good teacher you should go for it. I started out in group lessons. It was piano though, not general music games or anything like that.

It is a shame in some ways that the old standard is not used today. Guitar players number their fingers in the old piano format - they don't need a thumb on the frets so the other fingers are numbered 1 2 3 4.






The fact that she wants to learn would be a strong enough signal for me! You could consider Suzuki method - a list of those with the background to teach it should be available from Suzuki where you are.

If you end up in a waiting list, you will probably get her started at 5 years of age. That is a good age for building strong musical foundations.

I started when I was five and took grade 5 at the age of 10, having also passed grade five theory and begun to learn harmony and figured base, and writing music for the school "orchestra" (piano, violin and two recorder parts). (Ugh - that makes me sound like a little prig - I didn't mean it like that, it was just that I was interested in those sorts of things). What I am trying to say is that the girl in question sounds bright and interested, and so why not go for it. You need a teacher who is experienced with that age group and is willing to give an all-round music education rather than just work through a tutor book, and to follow up any particular interests - but that's the best sort of teacher for any age!

On the sub-thread of fingerings, my sister learnt the violin before starting the piano and found piano fingerings very confusing after only using four fingers for the violin.

Fingerings 1,2,3,4,5 have sometimes confused a few of my pupils. They don't see their thumb as a 'finger' and often forget about it!

The dogs and birds book looks interesting. Went on a colourstrings / colourkeys course once and saw one of the teachers (Cecilia Vajda ) who is recommending the book. She brought in some of her young pupils to play for us and their technique was amazing. Still the children had had a good background in music before attempting to play their instrument - lots of kodaly, and they learn to sing their pieces long before they learn their instrument so that when they do come to play these simple tunes they know them without realising it.

Did teach someone at school aged 4, progress was slow but this year it really clicked. Having had that year of getting to 'know' music really helped.

Can I add that it's maybe not 'piano' lessons that are so important at this stage, but a feel for music, singing games, rhythm games, clapping, tapping, joining in and being exposed to live music.

I think, looking back, that the groundwork wasn't put in place when I was really young. So it has been more difficult for me to take up music later in life.
My own youngsters were encouraged early (almost from birth) and now have Grade 7 piano, Grade 8 drums, Grade 2 clarinet and Practical Musicianship, Grade 6 flute, Grade 6 piano and more Practical Musicianship between the two of them at ages 16 and 13.

Wow, that's amazing!
I used to have some confusion over learning the violin too, because I only began lessons after playing the piano for like 26 years!
So my 5th finger for the piano became my 4th, and I was always using the 'easier' finger and I kept forgetting that the 1st finger for the piano can't play a thing on the violin!