What do folk think of the new "car scrappage scheme"? I think that this thinly disguised "environmental measure" is actually an attempt to give the ailing car industry a boost. If it's an environmental measure, presumably the extra new cars demanded by the public will need to be made in a super-green way. Likewise, the scrap metal will have to be composted for the sake of protecting the planet. Hang on, metal isn't bio-degradable!

So what do we think? I saw about 50 cars on the way home tonight that would be crushed under the new scheme, and they were perfectly good and not outrageously polluting. Indeed, they didn't even appear that old! Surely scrapping them and replacing them is not good for the environment? And similarly, I hope they don't start destroying classic / future classic cars! If I can't have a Citroen 2CV when I'm older because they've all been scrapped, I'll be cross!!

Please understand, I care deeply about the environment, but I don't think they've thought this one through...

*The 2CV thing is serious. I've always wanted one.

Hopefully there'll just be fewer cars and therefore less pollution, both environmental and otherwise.

Perhaps the newer cars with which the older ones would be replaced would use fuel more efficiently than the others, be more economical to run and have catalytic converters.

*leaves before anyone notices that she knows ###### all about cars*

Edit: Also, couldn't the metal from the old cars be used to make new ones?

I do appreciate that, but will the difference really outweigh the pollution caused by scrapping all the cars etc?!

I wonder if the government will have thought of that...

I don't think they have...but slightly off topic, I like 2CVs too . And Renault 4s...

I love Renault 4s too! I'll need a big garage...

If you have a glue stick handy...

Cynical, but possibly rightly so

(btw my sister-in-law has a 2CV van)

Just remembered - my OH was looking at a rather smart electric motorbike that was on display in the town on Monday - can't remember its name, but he was quite impressed.

I travelled round western France as a passenger in a Renault 4 some years ago. That was fun

Ooh, you're in luck!

Already got it! Will try the 2CV one though. Wow! The Fourgonnette is rather rare on these shores!

I didn't think it was thinly disguised.

Quote from "Department of Business":

"The UK scheme, with £300m from Government and matched funding from industry, is intended to provide immediate support on a short-term basis to boost the car industry and its supply chain in the wake of falling sales. It will also get older vehicles off the road and encourage consumers to invest in new, safer, and potentially more environmentally friendly models".

The figures in a classic car magazine (ok they are going to be biased anyway) reckons that just on carbon emmissions, manufacturing a new car takes the equivalent of 60,000 miles on an old car, dont seem that enviormentally friendly to me!

As for metal it has always been recycled anyway, think the problem is more that some of plastics and things that cant be recycled

But on the other hand everyone go out and buy new cars, cause it keeps me in a job!

(yes 2cvs are pretty cool, but not as good as vw camper vans )

I think the world where fewer cars are driven is the one where aeroplanes are piloted by pigs...

Environmentally it makes no sense to replace old cars with new. It is almost always better sense - financially and environmentally - to keep an old car running, rather than incur the energy and resource costs of scrapping it and making a new vehicle as a replacement - especially for a low-mileage motorist.

The plastics situation has improved, recycled and recyclable plastics are now commonly used for car parts.

For an even greener solution there is the (concept so far) Lotus approach:

http://www.grouplotus.com/managedcontent/view/117

As you all most probably know I'm a petrolhead as well a classic car enthusiast.

Personally I think this proposal is stupid, new cars have to be built, old ones have already been built.

Some modern classics / classics will be scrapped for no good reason. If the government had there way they'd like to scrap all three of my current cars -
MGB Roadster
Mk. 1 MX5 project
Porsche 944

Why anyone would want to drive an overassisted box (aka new car) is beyond me.

Hmm, let's see now. Comfort, convenience, reliability. Oh and speed. I remember a mate of mine back in the 80s being pretty peeved that I could keep up with his MGB in my Fiesta 1300 Sport (very old hat stuff now). It was also huge fun to drive (for as long as it remained on its wheels - oops ).

I used to think classics were pretty cool but I can only think of one I would really want to make garage space for - Austin Healey 3000. It's unlikely ever to happen.

Reliabilaty! but I have to agree that there boring!

Used to have a 944, they look so much better than the 924!

Classics aren't all about speed but you can make them fast!

What 944 did you have? This is my second I've had a 2.5 lux and now got an S2.

Reliability - nah, old ones are easier to fix and cheaper parts in general!

So will consumers get grants to enable them to "invest in ........ new models"?

The "grant" is the £2000 "trade in" being given against your 10 year old car.

Must admit, I thought the scheme sounded great and was thinking of taking the £2000 for my 12 year old Renault Clio while the going is good. The only thing stopping me was the thought of increased insurance premiums for the new car with a 19 year old son as a named driver, and of course the money!

I would never normally buy a new car (I've only had 2 cars in the last 25 years, and they were both bought secondhand at about 18 months old), but the scheme at least made me think about it, which seems to be the government's aim. It's likely that I shall have to replace my car in another 3 years anyway, as the bodywork usually starts to let me down at around 15 years old, so bringing the purchase forward isn't out of the question.

86 turbo, left hand drive import. The previous owner had taken the turbo off and swopped the manifolds with a 2.5(i think) cause he couldnt afford a new turbo. Was going to put it back to standard, but before i had time a mate borrowed it and had an argument with a tree and wall, just wasnt worth fixing after

They have a similar system here but I missed out as we changed our car 18 months ago and won't be buying a new or a second hand car for some years now. The problem caused here is that the car breakers now have no room to stock cars and the price of metal for re-cycling has fallen to rock bottom. One man"s meat .....

Formerly we were the owners of what must have been one of the oldest R4 vans in France. We called her OVNI (Objet Volant Non Identifié) and she cheerfully carted floorboards, bags of cement, lawnmowers and large dogs until one day she gave up the gasket with a great oily sigh. She's been replaced by a VWPolo with a roll back roof - only we've locked ourselves out and lost the key!

Our "best" car is a Laguna. I think they're rather looked down on at the moment but I'm sure her hour of glory will come.

The nicest car I ever owned was a bright red brand new Fiat 500 called "Liza". She chugged me everywhere and I was in love with her. Those were the days!

I think the pig idea is more likely to happen.

My Dad is looking at taking this offer up to trade in his Lucida. The £2000 is only a bit less than he paid when importing it from Japan. I'm quite sad as it's a great size for transpoting large musical instruments. He's doing it save on fuel and as he thought insurance. He then discovered that his new (whateve)r is only marignally cheaper than the old MPV.

A Lucida?! Don't get rid of that - they're amazing!! They still look like spaceships twelve years on!

I remember seeing a Renault Espace (the original one) in Chamonix just after they had come out. That was seriously a jaw dropping moment. The Renault Avantgarde had a similar effect more recently. Shame they're Renaults really.

The deed is done I'm afraid. If I could afford two cars I would keep it, but I can't so that's out of the question.

The Renault Avantime was wonderful! I'd have had one if all other things added up to it! Pity they stopped making them, but hardly surprising... What is wrong with Renaults?!



Ah well... One day!

I love 2CVs - my parents had one when we were little and when I think abou it now it makes me smile ... ours was 'convertible' but whenever I picture the car it reminds me of a huge umbrella!

Oops, that's the right name.

Well they're fun but not the best built or most reliable cars.

I think most people seem to have a different idea of what makes a great car than me on here!!

Ah well I think there is a big difference between "great car" and the sort of box most of us use to commute, shop, go on holiday, etc.

Avantimes drove really nicely........for about a month(before the seat falls apart)! Even the name ended up being a joke at Renault, because the project was delayed for years.

Renault bought back all the cars that the dealers had left.

I agree with Nicia- I think the scrappage scheme is completely stupid. Surely all that is going to happen is the dealers will be reducing the discounts that they would already have given anyway so the new cars won't be any cheaper for the customer (eg for many years citroen were giving cash back offers on their cars of around £2000, they don't seem to be doing that any more ).
Ialso think its a bit rich helping the car industry when all the British marques have been allowed to disappear over the last twenty years.
Surely a better way of stimulating the car industry would be to increase the disposable income of customers by say; decreasing the tax on petrol, removing vat from utilities, reducing road fund license (or whatever they call it these days).
I do object to my tax money being spent on these kind of schemes, no one ever helped me to buy a new car. Its quite typical of this goverment though- especially after the huge amount of money they gave to the banks to bail them out- if the company I work for is doing badly they don't get bailed out.

On a lighter note one positive thing from the scrappage scheme is that if you don't scrap your 10 year old car, its going to get very rare- this may make classics out of all kinds of unexpected cars.



While I'm in a rant just one more thing
Why doesn't anybody use the handbrake anymore ? If your at a traffic lights with your car in gear with the clutch pedal depressed and your foot on the brake you will warp your front discs- also if anybody hits you from behind you will be launched forward and hit the car in front, which will hit the car in front etc.
I know that driving schools teach people to drive like this, but why ?

I've got a 12 year old car I've been thinking of replacing for a couple of years. I may use the scrappage scheme, I might not. Certainly without it I wouldn't even consider a brand new car. I'm going to have a look round, see what deals I can get with or without the scrappage on new or newish cars then make a decision. I may decide to hang on to the existing car for a while longer.

I'm very much of the "car as a functional tool", rather than "car as fun" camp. One thing that I hadn't realised until I started looking round was just how much safer new cars are, both in terms of avoiding accidents in the first place (ABS, ECS plus a host of other TLAs) and in reducing injury to occupants if the worst does happen. I know that all the safety features in the world aren't a substitute for good driving, but I can still see their value.

Well I certainly do.

Is that really what they teach these days? That's pathetic. What about hill starts? I remember amazing a couple of American colleagues years ago by doing a hill start without rolling back a bit



Well I think what ianporsche was driving (haha) at, is that dealers may well offer more than £2000 discount if you don't have a trade in. This would render the scheme useless.

Plus more reliable, nicer to drive, etc.

Not all driving instructors teach people to drive like that - mine certainly didn't!

I get frustrated with my partner and her family always holding on the clutch when stopped on hills!

Its alright for them, but its muggins here who has to get dirty and replace them!

People not using their handbrake is my favourite rant if they can't use their handbrake they should be in an automatic at best or not driving at all.

As for staying on topic - new cars being more reliable and nicer to drive, not in my opinion. If you look after and maintain your car accordingly you shouldn't have too much trouble but if you do most jobs are easy DIY jobs on an older car. As for nicer to drive most new ones feel so uncconected to the road, like some sort of space ship.

Well certainly my old cars (especially my Hillman Imp) taught a gret deal about maintenance.

I'm not convinced - providing you are comparing like with like. Take a 1966 Cortina alongside a present day Focus for instance.

I suppose the most "connected" cars I've ever driven have been rally cars. But I wouldn't take one on holiday. I would take my Passat any day.

Maybe (in terms of car scrappage schemes) we should be comparing a 2009 Focus against a 1999 Focus !
I do wonder in these days of leaner burning more efficient engines how fuel efficient cars could be if some of the frippery (eg air con, electric windows, cup holders, excessive soundproofing, multiple airbags) was removed.
My car carries around an air con system weighing in the region of 25 Kg- who needs aircon in a convertible ?

The fact is though if the government was so concerned about the environment they would not be encouraging scrapping (i.e. using massive amounts or time and energy) or buy new cars (i.e. using massive amounts of time and energy making them), if people wanted to be rid of older cars that were "uneconimically viable" they would encourage the owner to break them for parts and sell the parts to someone who would use them, helping out others.

No one needs any of it, nor does anyone need other driver aids, the fact the driving public have come to expect it.

As for a/c in convertibles, well when you've got one that constantly steams up, I do think it's a rather good idea Boxsters tend to be watertight though, I know mine was

My current 1.8 Passat is much less economical than my Rover 820 2.0 of years ago for precisely that reason. The Rover would return well over 40mpg on a long trip.

Look how quick and economical the Lotus Elise manages to be at the same time. Mind you, I would still take my Passat on holiday.

I've certainly been taught to always use my handbreak at traffic lights if it becomes a wait. My instructor prefers me not to use it at junctions on a slope, however, to get me better at clutch control (and not rolling backwards)...

Well learnng clutch control is a good thing, but to keep the clutch on the bite wears it out!

Did a clutch job last week that cost £980 , car had only done 15,000 miles.......think I would have prefered to use my handbrake more and kept the cash!