Oh what a morning. My son who is just 12 years old and went up to secondary school last September has changed so much.

At infant and primary school he hated having weekends and school holidays off because he just adored school and wanted to be there all the time.

He is very bright and is on the Gifted and Talented register and the school have been very good in making sure that he receives the appropriate challenges so that he doesn't become stale.

However, there are a few lessons that he doesn't like, and because he has such high expectations of himself puts himself under so much pressure. Unless he is really good at something in his eyes he is rubbish, there is no in between. I understand this is a common trait with gifted and talented children, if they can't really do something well then they don't want to do it because of scare of failutre.

Well, the last few months have been trying on a Thursday when he has art, he hates art because he feels useless. I have spent a lot of time with this subject where I will draw first and then he will copy, he has come on well with shadings etc and although he still hates art, he hasn't been making himself ill about it, but just gets up and goes to school.

Over the weekend he has been rather clingy, and different but not opened up at all. When we were at church yesterday whilst I was helping in Sunday school, he said to me "got science tomorrow" with a sad face. Unfortunately at this time I couldn't delve in further as I was looking after the little children there.

When we were coming home I mentioned it and he said he didn't like it, I just said we all have to do things we don't like.

Last night he was really clingy and saying that he was lonely, I just told him that he was over tired and would feel better after some sleep.

This morning, so hard to get him out of bed, said he was really ill and was in a real state. Well, I knew it was about science, so I just told him he had to go to school and it wouldn't be as bad as he thought.

He said he isn't being bullied and the work isn't too hard but it seems the teacher shouts a lot. I said to him that some teachers do shout but they don't mean anything by it, they just find that they need to talk loud to get across. Our own music teacher I would say shouts, but not in a bad way, just obviously used to having to talk loud to get across to a class.

Well, I felt awful pushing him out to school, but I have been here before with my eldest son. He hated school from day 1 to the day he left. When he was at secondary school it was so difficult to get him there, so much so that the welfare assistant got involved and everything, he however, was being bullied, but this son says he is not.

I have phoned the school today and spoken to the head of year and asked them to talk to him, I am sure that my son will not have wanted me to do this, but I feel it has to be nipped in the bud quickly.

I just feel awful now though pushing him out to school, knowing that he was in distress, but it was the right thing to do.

This child is so gifted that it would be a crime to let his schooling suffer and all his abilities go to waste.

Hope you don't mind me posting this, but just writing it down makes me feel a bit better.

I just know that I can't cope with going through this nightmare again, it went on for years with my eldest.

ET

Aw ET, I'm really sorry to hear this I can't offer anything else but sympathy I'm afraid, but lots of that

Not very helpful though

Have you had a parents' evening, or a report on which you can give feedback?

I think sitting down to talk to the head of year is a good idea (by phone or face to face). It may emerge that your son isn't the only one who feels this way and, though hardly an ideal situation, that might make him feel better.

Unfortunately once they get to secondary school, the chances of getting on with every single teacher are slim, and I had to have the same sort of discussion with my elder son, as he was letting his dislike of a teacher get in the way of his enjoyment of - and ability in - a subject.

Try and find out whether he will have a different teacher next year and, if that's the case, have a countdown of science lessons - again, not necessily ideal, but the main thing is to get him through the rest of this year without making himself ill or letting the science deteriorate completely.

You have my symapthy also. I know how you feel.

My daughter is only in Y1 but we had a similar event the other week with regards to swimming.
In the end I got an opportunity to see exactly what it was that was making her sooooo unhappy (lying in bed with tears streaming down her face but no noise or fuss being made My heart bled for her!!! ) as they were desparately short of a helper.

Not going to work in your case ET but as parents you just have to do what you think is right. If that's talking to his head of year then so be it. Does he NEED to know though? or is it something you can monitor between you?


You did the right thing.

Sounds to me like this child is learning a very tough life lesson: having to put up with things we don't enjoy or are not so good at is an everyday challenge for most people.

I don't think being 'Gifted and Talented' really comes into it (what a terrible label btw - although I appreciate this is probably standard nomenclature in the education system) - any child of any level will have to go through this process. For the less able, I guess they get to grips with it earlier than some.

Being a decent parent is all about navigating through these rougher times. It is easy being a mother/father when a child is coasting happily along. It sounds to me like you are doing the right things in talking to the school about it at an early stage. My guess is the child will eventually come to terms with the fact they cannot succeed at everything and you will find that the situation will gradually ease.

Good luck.

It's probably something to do with being a smaller fish in a bigger sea as well, and floundering a little with less individual attention and less constant reinforcement of praise. Having a different teacher for every subject, and the teachers not knowing the pupils as well as in the past can be hard to cope with, as the pupil becomes 'just another pupil' rather than an individual. In a way, it might help to point this out, so that he knows that the science teacher isn't just shouting at him, but at the general room! Making a solid core of friends helps, as friends support each other. This may not be much help at the minute if the friendships are not established yet, but joining clubs and things that have people that he likes as members might help.

As for subjects that he doesn't like and isn't good at - rather than try to help him be good at everything, might it be better to get him to accept that it's just something to get through until he gives it up? It's hard for kids who are good at everything to accept it when something comes along that they aren't so hot at, but it helps to be aware that while you can't change everything that's thrown at you, you can change your attitude to it. So rather than strive and feel wanting in art, for instance, why not think of that class as a rest, in which he does what he can and then forgets about it till the next time. The most academically gifted all have something that is their nemesis - and this might be his!

I'm sure he'll settle down soon, so try not to worry, or pass your worry on to him. I think you did the right thing to ring the school, but do assure him that feeling like this is normal when moving to big school, and that many go through it, talented or otherwise. Something similar happened with one of my kids at this stage, and contacting the school helped enormously in little subtle ways. He was diplomatically put beside somebody who was feeling sort of the same in a few classes, and a friendship developed which made both individuals more confident and at ease.

Thanks for all your comments, it is nice to share and vent off a bit, it kind of takes the stress away a little.

A lot of the comments I have already put into play, for example, life is about doing things that we don't want to do, but we just have to get on with it. You can't be good at everything, so don't beat yourself up about it, do your best that is all that you can do, we don't expect any more than that. If you are no good at art it doesn't matter, you don't want to be an artist, see this class as a bit of fun, a kind of therapy.

When we do art at home he has always loved it, so I have tried to explain just see it as a play thing, I do think I am getting there with that though as he hasn't protested for a couple of weeks and even went on the art trip which he was selected for due to making good progress (he didn't have to go on this but he chose to do so and actually enjoyed it)!

This science thing is a new one, he has always been good at science and in primary school it was his favourite subject, he used to say that maths may be my best subject but science is my favourite.

I did speak to a friend earlier today and she said that her son makes comments like, the teacher must think we are Year 11's as she gives us this hard work and doesn't explain it properly.

But we will see, it could be that he is being bullied and when I am tackling him to find out the problem and ask if it is the teacher that this is his easy answer to put me off the scent.

Hopefully the Head of Year will have been able to have had a chat with him and shed some light on it.

The other thing that I thought of later is that it could be do to where he is sitted in the classroom. He likes to sit in the middle and if he has been placed at the front or the back, this will make him feel uncomfortable. If it is something as simple as that then I am sure that it can be rectified.

He has recently joined the chess club at school and that was today, so I said to him that you have your chess to look forward to and at the end of the day he has his favourite subject ICT.

I am sure that he will turn up home later smiling and that he has just build a mountain out of a molehill, like they all do.

But thanks all for listening. I suppose having gone through this with his older brother for so many years, I just know it has to be sorted quickly.

ET

Yes good point. I never heard of a "gifted and talented" register before - I don't think they have them in Northern Ireland maybe. I would have been talented at music and some other things, but rubbish at sports and art. I don't think my parents were particularly worried and as a result it didn't bother me too much either. I couldn't get the hang of hockey or netball but when I told my mum she just laughed and said "Ah well, it's only a stupid game" Same with art. It was usually "what on earth is that supposed to be?!" followed by "Hmmm.. well, you did your best" then more laughter

Sister was very artistic so mum bought her special paints and canvas etc.... and sent her to painting class. They recognised a talent in my sister and quite rightly gave her all the help they could. Help that would have been wasted on me

I felt "useless" in art class too but because no one made anything of it I didn't care that much.. in fact my paintings were usually a source of great amusement I didn't hate it though, but if I'd felt anyone expected more of me than I was able then I might have done. It's better not to make a huge deal of it.

Time spent outside school on a subject I didn't have talent for would have been time taken away from music!

I'd still be inclined to check with a teacher to make sure your son definitely isn't being bullied though as sometimes they won't admit it. Hope he starts to feel happier soon xxxx

I wish we didn't have it either. It's a divisive thing which separates friends and isolates some children whose high IQs made them feel a little isolated in the first place. As well as those who are academic it includes those good at music and sport. The latter group at my children's school is represented by a few who have no other skills at all, except disruptive behaviour. The latest local scheme involves having G&T pupils from higher years acting as mentors to the lower year's G&Ts. This often means that a year 11 academic genius is placed under the leadership an older child who can hardly read, is often suspended for poor behaviour, but is really skilled with a football.

My daughter doesn't want to go to school either - because "Everyone's so stupid - even the teachers!". Sorry - that's life. I've found that interests outside school are very helpful - daugther is a member of a local theatre group where there's a whole range friends to be made without artificial groupings.

My old school went through a phase of embracing the G&T business hugely. It's a bit of a double-edged sword, being another label that is assigned to certain children with the inevitable side effect of distinguishing them from the rest and making the others feel inadequate. I do appreciate its advantages though, if it's used effectively.

I do hope this gets sorted out, ET. Does your son have peers in a similar position at all?

Been there, done that with son1 - hand on the door-handle, tears streaming down his face, determined to go to school but not quite brave enough to open the door and set the day in motion. He would have been about your fellow's age.

Even son2, who enjoyed his new school very much, found the first half year hard going until he got used to it.

I agree that you are right to enquire at school about whether he seems comfortable in class or not, and whether the teachers are aware of any budding friendships or whether he seems alone or nomadic.

Regarding "don't like science"...does it help to talk about things you've found harder or easier at different times over the years?

12 seems to be a transitional age - young children feel "good at" subjects when they like the teacher or find the subject easy to understand; but when the going gets tougher, the teacher may think s/he is just shoving the kids off their comfy sofa, but they feel as if they've been shoved over the cliff!

One of my kids loves maths, while the other is less enthusiastic. I notice that actually a similar amount of groaning goes on when the going gets tough, and the first round of homework on a new maths topic may be similarly on fire with red ink, but the son who loves maths just takes it in his stride, whereas the other son tends to regard mistakes and struggles as signs that he's "no good". Yet the reality is, the initial struggles don't seem to have all that much to do with overall achievement or ability.

Maybe much praise to your son for keeping his nose above water and his feet kicking when (for whatever reason) science is tough - it's a big area, and even if this year is tough, he'll find his scientific Happy Valley in the end!

P.S. Is he getting enough sleep? 12 year old boys seem to grow every time you blink your eyes, and they do seem to need a spot of coddling.

I don't have children so don't have anything I can say there apart from some sympathy for both of you.

But as an artist can I just offer a snippet of hope? I don't know how art is taught in schools these days but there's a lot more to it than just 'drawing a picture of something'. Perhaps you could show him some modern art, or sculpture or something like public art where something like lights or computers might relate to his daily life.. rather than 'painting a vase of flowers'. Our local gallery had a skull made from paper with a lightbulb inside it which the kids loved.

If he does have to draw something for homework how about turning it into an abstract, mosaic (put a grid over the basic drawing and colour in blocks) or collage with pages from magazines etc. That sort of thing is far more accessible than producing a likeness... and it's very much still art. Perhaps you could talk to his teacher about avoiding the 'likeness' millstone which kills a lot of self-esteem in children.

A lot of art students graduate with degrees where they can put egg-timers in birdboxes and hang shoes from the ceiling but can't draw a likeness to save their lives!

A thought here...

You said you had difficulties making your eldest son attend school. I would assume that your youngest is well aware of what went on, and the attention your eldest recieved as a consequence of his behaviour. He may therefore feel that its an easy (and normal!) way to get out of things he doesn't like, and not know any different.

No, not at all, my eldest is 28 and had left school before my youngest was born. Thats why it was so nice to have a child that adored school after going through that with my oldest son. My eldest son actually left home at 16years and went to live with his Dad as he didn't get on well with my new husband. Mind you him and my husband are best mates now!

ET

Like lottie, I have no children, so cannot comment from a parent's point of view but I would like to sympathise and say I think you have done the right thing in contacting the school.

On a wider scale I think it is often very difficult for parents to know what to do with children who find the the change to secondary school a hard leap. I have a piano pupil at the moment who is due to go to secondary school next September and I agree with her parents that she is going to find this very hard indeed. They are desperately searching for the right school and have even envisaged home schooling. So take heart - this is a problem many parents face. I am sure you will find the right road and I think lots of the things other posters have said are very true. I was particularly interested in what all ears said about getting enough rest - I too have noticed the growth spurts and tiredness of young adolescents. It might be worth a word with your GP.

It seems odd that this problem has only just surfaced, eldatom. It wouldn't surprise me if something has happened in a science lesson last week, which has made your son feel he doesn't want to go.

When my son was in year 8 he got on fine with his Science teacher until one day he did a silly thing. The teacher was showing them something at the front of the class which as part of the demo included a piece of tubing attached to a tap. They were all crowding round and son was trying to see, so not paying too much attention to what he was doing. He ended up putting his elbow on the tubing, which resulted in the other end coming off the tap and squirting water everywhere.

Of course, all the children laughed, and the teacher (understandably!) was annoyed because the demonstration had been spoilt. Unfortunately, instead of accepting my son's apology, he assumed it was something he had done on purpose and gave him a lunchtime detention. Son was very upset by the unfairness of life (even though I tried to get him to see it from the teacher's viewpoint), and from Science being a lesson he enjoyed, it became one where he did the work but basically sulked with the teacher and no longer wanted to go.

Things were eventually resolved after about a month without my intervention, as it must have been clear to the teacher after a while that my son's behaviour had radically altered. They had a man to man talk and cleared the air, and things were OK again.

Just wondering whether something similar has happened in your son's case, resulting in the teacher shouting at him for what in your son's eyes is no reason at all? These things will happen in school, so maybe you need to encourage your son to open up a bit more about the teacher's shouting. Best of luck!

Hi Everyone

Thanks once again for all your comments and suggestions.

I think the one about not having enough rest is certainly something that could be effecting him as he doesn't go to sleep until late and gets up at 6.00am in the morning. He is also suffering very badly from hayfever at the moment so all in all maybe what he can usually cope with is more difficult at this time.

He wasn't very happy with me when he came home because I had telephoned the school, I still think that I did the right thing as it was so out of character for him to have been like this. I just knew that something had to be wrong.

The teacher in question wasn't there today so they had a cover, however, I have a feeling that she may have said something about his handwriting as I found a letter in his pocket from another teacher saying
" thank you for coming to see me last week but after seeing your handwriting you do not need to come to the handwriting club. However, some of your teachers have said that they can't read your handwriting so I therefore suggest that you work hard to make it neat"

My son has beautiful handwriting when he wants but I expect he has been writing in a hurry and it has been a mess, I reckon that I am right on this and that this is what has been the problem.

I tried to tackle him about this but didn't get anywhere, however, within half an hour of our chat he seems to be back to his normal self and singing around the house.

Thanks for listening everyone.

ET

Hope things get easier for your son ET!!!!

Your son sounds kind of similar to me... although the situtation was a little different. I think you're doing all the right things - even just letting him know that you're there for him will be helping. It's the children who feel that they have to go through these things alone that it really does over, IMO. *hugs*

I think you need it.

Having resolved most of my daughter's Music problems by not attending after school lessons (her choice not mine) and getting a tutor. I don't have a lot of faith in the school system. I just know it'll all start again this week after the GCSE.

I think your friends son may have answered the route of the problem though. I know my eldest, who was always well behaved in lessons found it very difficult when other people were not. She just couldn't concentrate and I suspect your son isn't the only one who feels the way he does but he'll react differently.

Talk to whoever will listen, the head of science might be a good place to start, even if it's the teacher in question.

Good luck.

...and this is a good thing?