Hi everyone,

Just when I thought I got the hang of intervals, I get a blank spot - Don't ask me why.

I can do them over and over then next minute, it's gone.

Here's two examples.

B double flat to E flat ?

Ab to Gb ?

Thanks,

Fiona

You don't say which way up these are.

QUOTE (Fiona @ Nov 29 2004, 09:35 PM)

B double flat to E flat ?

Augmented fourth up or diminished fifth down

QUOTE

Ab to Gb ?

Minor seventh up, major second down.

When you're faced with lots of accidentals of the same sort on both notes, you can take the same number off each one and the interval remains the same. Removing one flat from each note, these two become the same as B flat to E and A to G, respectively, which you may find a bit easier.

Hi Kenm,

Sorry !

They are both ascending.

The minor 7th makes sense. It's the double flat interval that throws me.

Thanks,

Fiona

QUOTE (Fiona @ Nov 30 2004, 08:34 AM)

Sorry !

It wasn't a criticism, it was a comment.

Who knows, it might have made my answer twice as useful for someone else

QUOTE (Fiona @ Nov 30 2004, 08:34 AM)

It's the double flat interval that throws me.  :( Thanks, Fiona

I know what you mean. B double flat is an A when you do it on the keyboard. But do not think of it like that . It's what I always call an 'academic interval' because the chances of getting a B double flat in a score is pretty remote. (I would think? mmm! )

Think of the interval first by taking away the accidentals and looking at the letter name of the note itself - its B to E so it will always going to be a 4th. That gets you the interval itself (which is one 1 of the 2 marks in the exam!)

Then decide which note you want the bottom note to be - in this case B flat or B - so that you can decide which scale to use. If you choose B flat as your bottom note you are in the key of B flat major which has 2 flats (B flat and E flat) B flat to E flat is therefore a perfect 4th. But your B double flat at the bottom makes the interval a semi tone wider or longer so it makes it an augmented 4th.

Similarly you could take B as your bottom note (in case you have a blank in the exam about how many flats B flat major has!!!). The B major scale has 5 sharps. Again B to E is a perfect 4th. Then make it B flat to E flat. This makes it a semi tone lower at the top and a semi tone lower at the bottom so makes the interval remains the same i.e a perfect 4th. But you have B double flat at the bottom so it makes the interval a semi tone longer so it becomes an augmented 4th.

This may sound tortuous but it is logical. Just remember to go by the letter name of the note and you will not go wrong with the interval itself. It is so easy to say Oh, B double flat is the same as A so the interval is a 5th!

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Nov 30 2004, 11:24 AM)

This may sound tortuous but it is logical. Just remember to go by the letter name of the note and you will not go wrong with the interval itself. It is so easy to say Oh, B double flat is the same as A so the interval is a 5th!

Yeah. I did think that initially but then read too much into it thinking it was more complicated !

Kenm, I wasn't say 'Sorry!' in anegative way. I meant 'Sorry, i forgot to add that bit to my question'

Thanks for your help in clearing that up.

I know intervals are intervals, but they just catch me out sometimes and I go blank !

Fiona

QUOTE (Silver pianist @ Nov 30 2004, 11:24 AM)

the chances of getting a B double flat in a score is pretty remote.  (I would think? mmm!   )

Try some Poulenc.

About 12 years ago I conducted Elgar's "Sing unto the Lord", and was amused to see a passage for the basses where they finished a phrase on a Bbb and, after a bar or so of orchestra or organ, started the next phrase on an F#.

I challenge you all to name that interval

Double augmented 5th?
Sometimes if it changes key in between they give you the enharmonic equivalent to help you to pitch it.

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Nov 30 2004, 04:44 PM)

Double augmented 5th?

Correct in principle; or perhaps I should say that that is nearly the same extension of normal nomenclature that I would use (I would say "doubly augmented"), since I have never seen the phrase in print.

Actually I didn't say, which I should have done, that the F# was the next below the Bbb, not above.

QUOTE

Sometimes if it changes key in between they give you the enharmonic equivalent to help you to pitch it.

Also, a helpful composer would make sure that the new pitch occurred on an instrument in the intervening bar, to give the basses something to latch on to. I can't remember whether Elgar did, but I would be surprised if he did not.

QUOTE

Actually I didn't say, which I should have done, that the F# was the next below the Bbb, not above.

Doesn't that invert as doubly diminished 4th then? (Saves recalculating )

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Dec 1 2004, 11:22 AM)

QUOTE Actually I didn't say, which I should have done, that the F# was the next below the Bbb, not above. Doesn't that invert as doubly diminished 4th then? (Saves recalculating )

Right, and that's exactly what I would call it.

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Dec 1 2004, 12:44 AM)

Double augmented 5th?

It's possible (e.g. F to B#) but it's very rare.

QUOTE (tremolololo @ Dec 2 2004, 12:29 PM)

QUOTE (sbhoa @ Dec 1 2004, 12:44 AM) Double augmented 5th? It's possible (e.g. F to B#) ...

???

Oops I mistaken for double augmented 4th sorry.

One is possible from say C to Gx (double sharp)