I have a clutch of students who all go to the same school. They are in similar, sometimes the same, school years, and - because the school is not especially large - all know each other. This is actually quite good when they occasionally meet at lessons, local competitions or exam centres, but sometimes there is some competition between them which I feel could be demoralising to one or other of them.

For instance, a dyslexic student: "Why is X taking her Grade 2 when I haven't done my Grade 1 yet?" Or another, younger pupil: "Why is my cousin (who I also teach) learning that piece when I haven't done it and I've been learning longer than him?" etc, etc.

Obviously I don't discuss one pupil with another, but just try to brush it off lightly with "Maybe you can do that piece soon when you can do X" or "Maybe Y practises a bit more than you", but the truth is that there will always be competition between peers, and always pupils who vary in practice, aptitude, learning speed, intelligence, support at home and the hos of other things that dictate how well a pupil does.

So just wondering, really, if anyone has developed any good ways to make this more constructive and less demoralising?

I am in a very rural area too so have a potentially similar situation. I try to differentiate as much as possible with different books and musical styles. ! also run some ensembles involving many of my pupils and this is another opportunity to arrange music so that everybody gets a chance to shine AND work at the best level for the individual. Some of my pupils do exams but many don't, learning instead a diverse range of pieces and styles alongside musicianship and technique.

Often it's the parents who are more precious and aware of these sort of things than the kids would be if left to themselves. Now that's another hornets' nest which I prefer not to step into!

Yes - I agree it's often the parents rather than the kiddies.

I went through rather a bad patch a few years ago with a group of parents who knew each other and compared compared compared like mad. One even accused me of holding her son back (you're right - let's not go there!)

Yeah- most of my pupils live in the same village and yes- they compare! I have been asked 'What- X has already done her Gr 5- she started after me?' My answer usually is 'Well yes, but maybe X practices more than you. If you practiced harder, you would make faster progress'.
I find it kind of nice in a way- a good motivator. I do small concerts and they don't half listen to what the others are playing. They say 'Can I play that piece?' that they heard someone else play. But I can also say "Wow- remember the concert in the summer? Y played that piece. You are playing that now. Wow- maybe by next year, if you keep up your practice, you'll be ready to do your Grade 1 like Y has just taken?' And they are really pleased when they can play the piece that another pupil played in a previous concert as then they realise how much progress they are making. I find that sometimes the ones I teach who don't know anyone else who learns an instrument are the ones who make less good progress- they don't understand the relationship between practice and progress. They are often the ones who choose not to come to the concerts too.

My parents aren't too bad. I have a dyslexic student who takes longer to get there- her mum is just pleased she is getting there.

I have several in the same schools and I also sometimes get asked the sort of questions mentioned above. I always reply by saying something on the lines of "You are all different and I treat you all differently. I give you the work and the pieces I think are right for you. Music is not a race and not a competition." Most of them seem satisfied with that sort of explanation. I have been known tos say "He practises more than you" but only on very rare occasions as I don't think it's a very positive approach.

I do have one very talented boy and others often ask about him. They want to know what Grade he is doing etc. I simply tell them the truth and then add that "T" is an exception and they shouldn't compare themselves to him. Fortunatley he is a very lilkeable child, not at all big headed and also shines in other subjects so they seem to accept my answer.

One girl didn't want to do Grade 1 this year and is now a bit upset because two of her classmates are doing the exam. I have told her she can do it next year and, again, that music is not a race. She seems satisfied. I say "seems" because on never quite knows. However I think learing to accept differences is one of life's lessons.

Parents are not so easy to handle and I have had a couple of "pushers". If they accept my explanations well and good. If they continue to push I point out that they will have to bear the responsibility for failure or demotivation if they go against my judgement and become too competitive.

Sometimes it is the pupils themselves that push to achieve. I have just had to tell DS2's music teacher that I don't want him to take his Gx exam this term as I don't believe he is ready. She thanked me and told me she was delighted I had said this - as DS2 was pushing to take it. Though I do agree that there are far too many competitive parents....

These are good answers - and also give the competitive children the feeling that they are unique (which they are). Underlining the fact that it is not a race, too, is helpful. I always try to celebrate what kids do achieve, however small, as it helps to bolster their confidence. It can also help to de-fuse pushy parents when it gets repeated by the child at home!

Fortunately none of my parents are pushers and that is often where the problem stems from. There are of course children who compare and push themselves too and there are wonderful supportive parents.
This situation is exactly like children in primary schools on reading schemes. "Which level are you on?" "Why is she on that level and I'm not?"
I think the best thing to do is to discuss it honestly with the children with the sort of answers already listed on the thread. I used to do this for the primary school reader competitors too and it generally worked.
Not having every child doing the same tutor book and the same pieces is another thing and helpful for piano teacher sanity. Each child will be having an individual programme because they all have different strengths, difficulties and interests, even if they are broadly on the same scheme.
However, having said that I foresee a problem for me coming up with two children who are using the same scheme. One of them has been learning 2 years, 18 months with another teacher and 6 months with me and has made slow progress I would say, though she seems to be moving on a bit faster now and the other (mentioned on the "Difficult Pupils" thread is about to overtake her, after only 5 months of lesson. As they are friends I can see this being a bit awkward. The first of the pupils has done all of the supplementary material from the scheme as well as all kinds of other pieces at the same level and the second has raced through.

The sentiment here, and the experience, is very similar to mine. I find competition more of a positive thing than a negative. If there's a problem with one doing significantly better than another, it's very often down to practice, and the one who's making good progress deserves to be recognised for it. If there are big discrepancies between pupils who practise the same amount, then it might help to point out that everybody has different strengths and weaknesses. My dyslexic pupil is a fantastic memoriser, for instance, and plays a lot by ear - dashing between Youtube and the piano; so while we struggle a lot with reading, he is able to impress others at concerts with the fact that he gets up there with no score in front of him and plays in a very dramatic and expressive way. However this is still largely down to effort - others who wouldn't bother putting in the same effort will have to learn at some stage or another that we get out of life what we put into it! If that's a lesson that we can help to instill and build upon before cynicism sets in, then that must surely be a good thing? We also have threads here about children who aren't recognised enough for their hard work and achievements - I think this lack of recognition is more wrong.

I apologise for straying into the teacher's thread here, but as a pupil, I can say that few things motivate me as much as seeing somebody play something beautifully on the piano or the violin-it's all added incentive to practice, regardless of whether or not it's actually something I'd be capable of playing.

This is the same for my pupils. I have an annual concert and they really do take in what other people play. Reluctant practisers often hear someone play something they would like to learn and more confident children enjoy hearing something they have already played (a bit of a boost there!) or being inspired by the older children.

I teach several girls who are friends. Two of the mums are on the pushy side but I just play stupid and pretend not to notice! I make sure the girls do different stuff outside of exam time as then they can't compare. When it comes to exams etc it is more difficult, but I suppose that is part of life too; learning to look at other people and yourself and recognise your own strengths as well as your weaknesses.

I try to let my pupils know that everyone is different and learns in different ways. While someone else may seem to motor through music easily maybe this is because they're a good sight-reader but that doesn't mean they find technique easy or polishing pieces etc. I think it can be hard for children to understand that, but no harm to let them hear it...it may make some sense to them! It can be good to point out their individual strengths, as teaching can easily turn into a litany of "things you need to fix."

As for telling them, "X practises more" to be honest, I don't mind pointing out that a child needs to work more but am not sure I would do it in the context of another pupil. I have one little girl who gets frustrated with her lack of progress but doesn't seem to see the connection with her lack of work. I tell her though!!!!

For many children it seems to me that it is wonderful to have individual lessons where their own strengths and weaknesses are taken into account and where they are not in competition with others in a class situation. I think it's excellent to have an opportunity to go at your own speed whether it's really fast, or quite slow.

For that reason I aim to reduce competition wherever possible and if I am confronted by a child who says that X is much further ahead than she is then we have a little discussion and in the particular case I'm thinking of time spent practising was a big issue.

I also use quite a few different tutors so that there is less comparison between children especially in school and quite honestly I can say that some are better for certain circumstances.

I do have a regular concert for my private pupils, but everyone is praised for their efforts, and whether it is motivational when some see others playing "better" than them, or whether they are boosted by realising that they are ahead of the pack I'm not sure.

One thing that I feel it's important to get across is that it's not what you play; it's the way you play it.

definitely!

Hooray

Another student straying onto the teacher Forum I'm afraid...

I learn in a situation where a certain level of competition is inevitable and even encouraged as something positive. I have lessons in a small community cultural centre, with a growing music department, in a small town. There is no hope of everyone not knowing what is going on with everyone else, however the professional the teachers are (and they do have to be VERY careful).

One of the biggest "cultural shocks" for me starting off in this environment was to find out that everyone's individual progress is viewed almost as a collective asset, so I my individual lessons are not really "private."

We have local exams rather than anything along the lines of the ABRSM and there is a degree of competition there because the best students are chosen for end-of-term recitals.

There is also an element of competition in assignation of places in the centre's orchestra and other musical groups.

I think the clue to keeping this competitiveness positive on the whole is this sense of the individual's musical development being part of a collective asset. In a culture which generally is very peaceable and non-competitive, the music teachers do seem to find that introducing a bit of competitiveness is useful to raising the general standard, as pupils strive to get a place in the end-of-term recital or a better place in the orchestra. There are always some individuals who don't always react positively to this but on the whole it seems to work and the teachers seem to be quite sensitive to individual's reactions and help them to manage them. They are quite good at focusing on the advances and achievements of the individual, and reminding them that progress goes in phases, so that different individuals may make big advances at different times, and also that hard work pays off. They also regularly give "pep talks" in the group sessions so that students are clear about the overall goals and that helps too.

The students are also of a very varying age range, and it seems to me that the teachers are on the whole quite good at adjusting individual accompaniment and encouragement to the needs of learners of different ages, even though in the group and exam environment we are all "competing" together.