I am a pianist so I am obviously following the piano syllabus. However, I do sometimes see in people's signature that they have keyboard qualifications.

I looked at the guildhall info and saw the grade have scales, arpeggios and all the stuff one would expect. And there are a selection of pieces. I noticed that it does allow for using MIDI support (not backing tracks obviously) including sequences, drums, pads etc. There is also a viva voce and some scales that piano doesn't cover.

I have used a MIDI setup for many years and I am quite happy playing keyboards, so just out of curisioty, what would a keyboard grade 8 give you that a piano grade 8 would not?

This is not meant to be judgemental. I am purely curious.

N

I've got Grade 8 piano, but not sure I could do Grade 8 keyboard...two completely different instruments in my opinion!

Butting in as a nonstudent and complete nonmusician (sorry ) but title of your thread caught my eye. One of my nieces goes to a (very minor) public school that offers a 50% music scholarship (she is there on academic bursary being neither rich nor musical - just like her aunt). Rules for the award say that applicant cannot list keyboard as either 1st or 2nd instrument. All other instruments are allowed, although at least one orchestral instrument is encouraged. I always thought this was just snobbery. Most of the state junior schools round here offer keyboard instead of piano and those (like ours) that have a piano teacher come in charge full price to all parents while the keyboard teachers, who are employed by the council, accept music vouchers from low income families. Therefore most of B1 and B2's musical friends learn keyboard. Am I misjudging the school? What is so very different about a keyboard?

Learning keyboard is a different approach to piano. Keyboard music generally has one stave - treble clef melody - rather than the two staves for piano. This can be perceived as being 'easier' than learning piano because the pupil initially only has to learn to read one clef. However keyboard pupils learn to play chords with the left hand, which also involves learning the notes which make up the chord and to develop voicing to find the simplest fingering to progress from one chord to the next. They will also learn to play with the keyboard accompaniments available on the instrument. I only teach early grades so can't claim much expertise in the higher grades but as the pupil progresses they are required to use more of the keyboard functionality, saving settings and recording tracks. This leads into building arrangements for the songs/pieces they are playing, using different voices, multiple voices, varying accompaniments/voices within the same piece etc which takes the student into a different area, having to learn about and understand many different instruments.

In the early stages, there are many common principles and techniques the pupil has to learn in developing basic musicianship - learning to read notation, learning to keep a steady pulse, developing finger strength/technique, co-ordination of playing with two hands etc but as the pupil progresses through the grades, the difference in the approaches becomes greater. They are different instruments and learning one or the other develops some common skills and some different skills. Keyboard may be perceived as more accessible because the pupil may be seen to make progress more quickly because they learn to play a melody with an accompaniment quite early on. Also basic instruments are cheaper and therefore it is easier to give a young pupil the chance to learn and see if they like it; keyboard may also be seen as being more accessible for learning modern/popular music - I think this is true to some extent as the repertoire often includes arrangements of well-known classical pieces, film/show music, pop music etc. The use of rhythm accompaniments adds to this perception.

This post has become much longer than intended - I think I'll stop now!

Louise

It's always seemed to me that a good pianist could learn how the keyboard worked and what it could do by using the instruction manual, but someone who had only learnt the keyboard would find it much harder to become a useful pianist.

I once had to cringe when a teacher gushed about how fabulous a keyboard player was in the school concert. He played a melody with two or three fingers against a backing track produced entirely by the keyboard, and didn't even finish it properly. He was the poorest performer of all, but the gtuitars and violins playing what sounded like simple music were left feeling inferior. Sorry, this sounds bvery negative. I have to admit that while keyboards have their uses I hate them being used asna performance instrument as they sound horrid and you might as well record the whole thing and just play it back if the keybaord is already doing 99% of the work.

I know what you mean but a proficient keyboard player is something else entirely.
They will use good right hand fingering for the melody (though the technique is different from piano as the keys are not weighted for one thing) and fully fingered chords in the left hand. In the later stages the inversion of the chord will matter too. They will know how to use the rhythms in an appropriate manner and how and when to change this as they play.
Improvisation is also a part of keyboard playing.
Hopefully a good keyboard teacher would be as careful with good use of fingering as a piano teacher so you wouldn't get the 2 or 3 fingers thing (unless it's a melody with only 2 or 3 notes ).

I do think that in the early stages at least moving from piano to keyboard would be easier than the other way round. Having said that it might not be so easy for someone who hasn't picked up a good understanding of basic chords at least.

Thanks for all the replies. I think it is a bit clearer to me now. I guess for years I was a keyboard player (since I am OK at whizzing through chords and chucking something on the left hand while working a melody on the right hand). I've had a MIDI setup for many years so I am fine with the whole backing track and performing to it, however, now that I have been learning piano for 5 years I have become a snob!

It is a different skill set but it does appear that in the upper grades you cover the same sort of things that you do on piano. The difference being you aren't playing an 'established' instrument. I think for a school to say keyboard doesn't count is overly snobbish! Presumably they wouldn't allow any pieces written after 1900 either?

It was a good point about accessibility. A reasonable "keyboard" is probably about £200, whereas a reasonable digital piano is about £1500, and even then a digital piano is a different thing entirely to a proper piano (and I'd think £3-4K for a decent secondhand upright piano would be my price range).

It's an interesting point about the price of instruments in general. A reasonable string instrument is probably £300-500 and upwards, same for brass and woodwind. I guess if money is tight then be a singer, 'cos we all get that instrument for free!

N

A reasonable bassoon or mini-bassoon would set you back at least £1,000 and probably more like £2,000.

Wow, that's not an instrument you buy to see if you like or not! I guess the more complex the instrument (in terms of build, buttons, levers etc) the more expensive it will be.

I recall at a girl at my old school used to have a pretty nice flute that was about £1500. She had an alarming habit of leaving it lying around school though. I bet if it was an instrument case with £1500 cash inside she would have been more attentive...

N

You should be aware that the TG Electronic Keyboard exams stop at grade 5, for grades 6-8 they offer Digitial Keyboard, these higher grade exams require bass clef reading and the ability to improvise in various styles as well as the traditional keyboard pieces.

The improvising in different styles sounds quite useful. sometime just for fun I play an ostinato jazz bassline (C,Bb,A,Ab,G,Gb,F sort of thing) and then see what I can fit around the top end! So far I've managed Puff the Magic dragon, I've got rhythm, Get happy. I occasionally put Puff the magic dragon into a blues style, and I quite enjoy playing "Beat it" in a west end stage show style!

N