What is the best orchestra in teh world, In your very humble opinion. I consider all of these to be in the running for them:

Boston Symphony
Chicago Symphony
New York Philharmonic

Berliner Philarmoniker
Vienna Philarmonic

London Symphony
Philharmonia

Who else would you put in contention?

Close contenders with each other are definitely.

London Symphony
Berlin Phil
Vienna Phil

The LSO has 'cream of the crop' when it comes to the principals - especially in the woodwind and brass. Their string section is extemely powerful, but at the same time, shows great sensitivity in its playing style.

OF course, there can never be a greatest orchestra, they are all good in their own respects

True, you can't say that any one orchestra is the best but one contender for the title of "a great orchestra" must be the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra. Under Simon Rattle they grew from a rather ordinary provincial orchestra into one of the best in Europe. They've continued to go from strength to strength under Sakari Oramo's baton. And where better to hear them than the fantastic Symphony Hall?!

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City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra.

Woo! They rock. Well, not literally, but you know what I mean.

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And where better to hear them than the fantastic Symphony Hall?!

Anyone sounds amazing in there, the size is unbelievable as well... When you are on the stage and the house lights arn't on, you can't see the ceiling it is so high! Nicki can back me up on that... after I was so intent on finding where it finished I accidentally poked her with my flute during rehersals...

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Anyone sounds amazing in there, the size is unbelievable as well... When you are on the stage and the house lights arn't on, you can't see the ceiling it is so high! Nicki can back me up on that... after I was so intent on finding where it finished I accidentally poked her with my flute during rehersals...

Yes, it is so tall!! Well, I think we were both wondering where it finished, and I don't mind being poked!!

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 2 2005, 11:24 AM)

Berliner Philarmoniker

Definately!!!
But then again I live in Berlin!
The others are great, too lol

QUOTE (july @ Jan 3 2005, 05:21 PM)

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 2 2005, 11:24 AM) Berliner Philarmoniker Definately!!! But then again I live in Berlin!

Yeah, only slightly biased there! (well, kinda like me with the CBSO i suppose)

I ma be playing there later this year in the national festival for youth.

but for worst interpretation by an orchestra, that goes to royal concertbouw. Listen to dvorak 9 on classic FM. First section is clearly too fast, slow section too slow

that's quite typical...

I am shocked that nobody thought of one of the finest youth orchestras in the country - Merseyside Youth Orchestra! Can anyone think of other better youth orchestras than this one? Recently they (we) played Stravinsky's Firebird Suite - a tough one for any orchestra, Philharmonic or otherwise. Yet we pulled it off spectacularly, and this term are taking on the Nutcracker Suite. I personally have only heard of the Cumbria Youth Orchestra and Liverpool Youth Orchestra. Can anyone fill me in on any others? Thanks !
Choddy

National Youth Orchestra?

i dont really like Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. i have to study it for A-level but if you pulled it off, then great!!

Choody- i live near Liverpool, where abouts do you live, perhaps you could PM me?!

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 3 2005, 09:17 PM)

but for worst interpretation by an orchestra, that goes to royal concertbouw. Listen to dvorak 9 on classic FM. First section is clearly too fast, slow section too slow

Yeah but you have to remember that works like this have been recorded to death (I notice 294 recordings in the cat) so each new bloke who wants a bash at it has to do something different to TRY to distinguish himself. Sometimes he manages to extinguish himself.

So, only one (if that) of those 294 might be what dvorak wanted, the other 293 are wrong.

It's also down to conductors who can mess up a perfectly good orchestra, as can an insensitive recording team.

Unless you've heard all the orchestras in a variety of venues, presumably you're talking about recorded & broadcast performance. These are calculated to be somewhat different from live performances.

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Jan 4 2005, 11:44 AM)

i dont really like Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. i have to study it for A-level but if you pulled it off, then great!!

The only possible way to get into this is through the entire work as a ballet*. I'm not sure if it's being put on anywhere - there's a couple of DVD recordings of it - the Royal Danish about the best, certainly the one that does it sensuous justice - if you can put up with it on the little box.

*in my everso umbl opinion

The suite is awful, isn't it? Not at all sweet.

Ulster Orchestra's not bad. I'm hugely biased, in that I know more people from that Orchestra than any other, but they're not bad (not great though)

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 4 2005, 11:56 AM)

The suite is awful, isn't it? Not at all sweet.

lol

i wont be able to get through any of it, i cant stand it!

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Jan 4 2005, 12:02 PM)

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 4 2005, 11:56 AM) The suite is awful, isn't it?   Not at all sweet. lol i wont be able to get through any of it, i cant stand it!

Not even with some custard???

well maybe lol, but chocolate cake might do the trick. i fancy some now, but cant as im in a library!

I think custard would make it worthwhile...especially after some tuna macaroni

ah yes of course nicki, i will try that!

must dash, time is up now,and lots of work to do before school tomorrow! byeeeeee!

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 4 2005, 12:17 PM)

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Jan 4 2005, 12:02 PM) QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 4 2005, 11:56 AM) The suite is awful, isn't it?   Not at all sweet. lol i wont be able to get through any of it, i cant stand it! Not even with some custard???

Wow! Who's offering custard around? I love custard!! But the only food I can smell at the moment is greasy, vinegary chips coming from the college canteen. Ick.

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must dash, time is up now,and lots of work to do before school tomorrow! byeeeeee!

Ditto, I have about 4 pieces of work, and about 15 jobs to do before 4.30pm!!

All this talk of food is making me hungry :-|.

QUOTE (Subatomic_Star @ Jan 3 2005, 08:46 PM)

QUOTE (july @ Jan 3 2005, 05:21 PM) QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 2 2005, 11:24 AM) Berliner Philarmoniker Definately!!! But then again I live in Berlin! Yeah, only slightly biased there! (well, kinda like me with the CBSO i suppose)

and baroquebassoon: it's berliner philharmoniker *not meaning to be an annoying know-it-all*

yeh, the firebird suite (which im also studying for A2 music) is a bit too sugar-coated for my liking. I do love the really short movement with the big Horn solo, no.6 of the 1945 score ?, i forget what its called.

Also the final hymn is pretty amazing.

Orchestras that are amazing, CBSO (city of birmingham symphony orchestra) the LSO and of course the berlin phil. one of the best youth orchestras I know is the Bedford County Youth Orchestra, cos we're doing Mahler's Fifth Symphony tomorrow night!

How can you tarnish the name of the greatest composer in the twentieth century. Stravinsky Has completely changed the way that music is written. According to my music teacher (ha ) all film music comes from the " rite of spring" Only piece I know that caused a riot on its first perfromance.

What you have to listen to when listening to the suite is its amazingness. It may not be special when we are bombared with cage and glass (the composers) every thirty seconds. Particularly points to listen to are the way the woodwind create effect in the first movement, the start of the 4th movement. (katchei movement) the berceuse played by bassoon and harp, the best moment in orchestral writing if played correctly (a bassoonists view, of course) and the ethereal horn moment beginning the end of the suite.

I am of course the expert having played this with my youth orchestra, at the last night of the school proms 2004 ( obviously saving the best youth orchestra until last, in this case)

Find out what youth orchestra im in yourself

QUOTE (Choddy @ Jan 4 2005, 11:35 AM)

I am shocked that nobody thought of one of the finest youth orchestras in the country - Merseyside Youth Orchestra! Can anyone think of other better youth orchestras than this one? Recently they (we) played Stravinsky's Firebird Suite - a tough one for any orchestra, Philharmonic or otherwise. Yet we pulled it off spectacularly, and this term are taking on the Nutcracker Suite. I personally have only heard of the Cumbria Youth Orchestra and Liverpool Youth Orchestra. Can anyone fill me in on any others? Thanks ! Choddy

ohhhhhhhhhhhh, havent you heard of oxfordshire county youth!?!? the best youth orchestra in my very humble opinion, (again, this may be a slight case of bias, with me being a member) we're playing tchaicovskis (help i could never spell that) symphony no 6, and we're doing just fine, so we'll hopefully see some of you in the national festival of music 4 youth..................................!!

QUOTE (Choddy @ Jan 4 2005, 11:35 AM)

Recently they (we) played Stravinsky's Firebird Suite - a tough one for any orchestra, Philharmonic or otherwise.

I am very grateful to MYO because some years ago I wondered into the Anglican cathedral with a friend who was visiting Liverpool, who I was trying to persuade Liverpool wasn't all shell suits and car thieves. MYO just happened to be there rehearsing this piece and it sounded fantastic - what a wonderful setting too!

Didn't Simon Rattle start off playing the drums for MYO? He's got to be a contender for the world's greatest musician - conductor of perhaps the world's greatest orchestra.

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 4 2005, 09:51 PM)

How can you tarnish the name of the greatest composer in the twentieth century. Stravinsky Has completely changed the way that music is written. .

If you say so, ho-hum... you may not have many takers tho!

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According to my music teacher (ha ) all film music comes from the " rite of spring" Only piece I know that caused a riot on its first perfromance.

Um, interesting...there were many film scores written, uh, pre...the Rite. A time-warp, would your teacher say? .. .. .. I quite like the Sacker Printumps tho.

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 4 2005, 09:51 PM)

What you have to listen to when listening to the suite is its amazingness.

Oh I so agree - what's amazing is that I didn't go to sleep. But that's because I was gaping at those dancers.

QUOTE (izzy @ Jan 4 2005, 10:13 PM)

QUOTE (Choddy @ Jan 4 2005, 11:35 AM) I am shocked that nobody thought of one of the finest youth orchestras in the country - Merseyside Youth Orchestra! Can anyone think of other better youth orchestras than this one? Recently they (we) played Stravinsky's Firebird Suite - a tough one for any orchestra, Philharmonic or otherwise. Yet we pulled it off spectacularly, and this term are taking on the Nutcracker Suite. I personally have only heard of the Cumbria Youth Orchestra and Liverpool Youth Orchestra. Can anyone fill me in on any others? Thanks !  :) Choddy ohhhhhhhhhhhh, havent you heard of oxfordshire county youth!?!? the best youth orchestra in my very humble opinion, (again, this may be a slight case of bias, with me being a member) we're playing tchaicovskis (help i could never spell that) symphony no 6, and we're doing just fine, so we'll hopefully see some of you in the national festival of music 4 youth..................................!!

Sorry, our youth orchestra (Which shall remain nameless for anominity ) has already won the BESt orchestral award in the open section i.e. WE ARE THE BEST REGIONAL ORCHESTRA IN THE COUNTRY

Beat that

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but for worst interpretation by an orchestra, that goes to royal concertbouw. Listen to dvorak 9 on classic FM. First section is clearly too fast, slow section too slow ......... that's quite typical...

I'm not sure that's true.

I don't have this particular recording of Dvorak 9. But when I heard Concertgebouw play Dvorak (not no 9) live they were brilliant.

Maggie

well MYO's been on Grange Hill (i wasnt in it then but thats not the point!) lol oxford county youth sounds good doing T.C.H.A.I.K.O.V.S.K.Y's 6th (is that right? my memories rubbish) anyway must dash (and dont dare skit firebird, and whoever sed the final hymn is boss was right, but theres some really high positioned work involved - bluff!)

Choddy

QUOTE (Choddy @ Jan 5 2005, 09:31 PM)

but theres some really high positioned work involved - bluff!) Choddy

Hahahahahaha, that's the way forward.

Bluff You Way (my textbook) says "Of course, Stravinsky was always making utterances. He once said that jazz was a "subversive chaos of sound" and promptly wrote the Rite of Spring. Following that he wrote a number of pieces based on jazz and ragtime. A remarkably clever man."

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Jan 2 2005, 11:24 AM)

What is the best orchestra in teh world, In your very humble opinion. [...] Who else would you put in contention?

For music since 1900 (including Broadway shows as well as avant-garde) the London Sinfonietta.

baroquebassoon, you're in the Bromley Youth Symphony Orchestra from Kent. Congratulations for being in such a good youth orchestra. Have you ever thought of going for the National Youth Orchestra? or the National Schools Symphony Orchestra? or the English Schools Orchestra? or the Birmingham Youth Symphony Orchestra?

Choddy, it was me that said the Final Hymn is gorgeous because of the horn solo, purely because I want to play it some day, also my horn friend has put words to it, v. funny but all I can remember from the song is "baked, un-til they're gol-den brown" ! )

When I talk about the Firebird suite, I'm referring to the 1945 version, because that's the one we do for A level. I don't know the original ballet or the previous suites made.

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Oh I so agree - what's amazing is that I didn't go to sleep.

Its not THAT bad, perhaps you've listened to it too much, and the sugar-ness is getting annoying.

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Jan 6 2005, 06:48 PM)

When I talk about the Firebird suite, I'm referring to the 1945 version, because that's the one we do for A level. I don't know the original ballet or the previous suites made.

I'm not the one studying it, so you'd probably know better than I do but I think the 1945 revision was merely a re-orchestration so that Stravinsky could make more royalties. He did the same thing in a few other works of his

One difference I can think of is the 'refrain' theme in the Infernal Dance is played on Eb clarinet in one version and piccolos in another

hornplayer- i like the final hymn, and i suppose the infernal dance isnt too bad, but the rest.............................................................................................................................

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Jan 7 2005, 03:57 PM)

hornplayer- i like the final hymn, and i suppose the infernal dance isnt too bad, but the rest.............................................................................................................................

I think that the amazing thing is that he could do such powerful parts, such as those, and still manage to compose such amazing (in the other sense) powerful, and moving sections, such as the weaving patterns in the variation of the firebird, and what else but the bassoon solo in the lullaby

baroquebassoon, may i not congratulated for figuring out which youth orchestra you're in?

The Firebird (in my humble opinion) is one of those pieces that has an immediate impact the first time you hear it, and then after careful study of the score and further listening you realise that he's done something very clever and yet so simple that you wonder why no one had thought of doing it before.

clarinetlover, have you ever played the Firebird Suite? Mega hard, but probably really fun aswell . The 1945 version that im studying only has clarinet in A, not clarinet in Eb. Also, he wrote the original FB ballet quite early on in his career so perhaps he over did the sugary-ness to increase its appeal with the audiences in Paris. It was his first ballet score afterall.

jstark, I can see why Stravinsky might have slightly altered and re-arranged the FB to get some more money out of it, but perhaps also he felt unsatisfied or even embarrassed by his more youthful attempts at making the FB into a Suite. It was a common-ish trend for composers of the 20th century to make further editions and even publish them under different publishers (Hindemith did this quite a lot but most musicians feel that earlier versions are better/more daring than the later versions.)

The bassoon solo in the penultimate movement of the 1945 suite sounds a bit snake-charmer like to me.

no never played it

I LOVE the Firebird!!

QUOTE (cheeble @ Jan 11 2005, 10:31 PM)

I LOVE the Firebird!!

erm why lol?

erm why NOT lol?

I love the Firebird too

QUOTE (hornplayer @ Jan 8 2005, 01:49 PM)

The Firebird (in my humble opinion) is one of those pieces that has an immediate impact the first time you hear it, and then after careful study of the score and further listening you realise that he's done something very clever and yet so simple that you wonder why no one had thought of doing it before.

Oh but they had - Stravinsky knew it and prob for that reason never liked the firebird. The guy's name was rimsky-korsakov. Strav also held a dim view of it compositionally regarding it as most people did and do, as 19th Century. Study any late R-K score and you'll see why.

The reason he wrote the suites was the same as many composers at the time - 78s, early gramophone records. That's how they made their money - nothing wrong with that but let's keep it in perspective. And now the musicologists pay their mortgages by clothing it in thick layers of stercum tauri!

QUOTE (maggiemay @ Jan 5 2005, 09:27 PM)

QUOTE but for worst interpretation by an orchestra, that goes to royal concertbouw. Listen to dvorak 9 on classic FM. First section is clearly too fast, slow section too slow ......... that's quite typical...   I'm not sure that's true. I don't have this particular recording of Dvorak 9. But when I heard Concertgebouw play Dvorak (not no 9) live they were brilliant. Maggie

I would reserve judgement on any orchestra (or soloist come to that) until I heard a live performance, and ideally a number of live performances (anyone can have an off day!). And on top of this the acoustics in the concert hall can make a big difference, as can where you are sitting. Also different conductors will add a different nuance to exactly the same orchestra and piece. Oh what a lot of variables!! How can we ever make a judgement???

Certainly an orchestral recording of several years ago would not reflect the current day orchestra (eg the Halle!!)

So bearing in mind I have NOT heard all the worlds orchestra's live several times, all in the worlds best auditorium etc etc, (but I have heard several of them)...top of my list is still the LSO, and way way down is the New York Phil (sorry NY!!)

Jane