I live in university halls and I've had a note under my door today asking me politely to use the music practice rooms rather than practising in my room.

This is fair enough: from the anonymous person's point of view, I make noise that disturbs them while there are rooms elsewhere specifically for the purposes of making noise. What they don't know is that I already use them to play the piano for 1-2 hours most days. Booking 3 hours at a time would not be feasible for my schedule, the room bookings schedule or for my concentration. I could book two slots a day and sometimes I will do this, but going to the practice rooms takes considerably more time than practising in my room once I've been to the opposite end of the site to collect and sign out the key, and time is not something I have infinite amounts of!

Soooo...does it do any good to practise with a heavy mute sometimes, and does it really make you almost silent so that this person definitely won't complain again? I wonder if maybe a better kind of silent practice is to mentally play/ mime pieces, and/or study the score? I've had some success with this before but I do find it takes more willpower than actually playing!

Any thoughts?

Rosie, for what I think about 'regular' practice and mutes look at the thread 'practice mutes' started by Hooplah VERY recently.....
I really don't think it is good to practice REGULARLY with a mute on and it will explain in there why

having said that mutes are a godsent in some circumstances and they can help in some situations!

the metal one is preferable to the rubber one my teacher says it hides intonation problems a lot less than the rubber one AND yes it will mute your violin even more and NO, your neighbours WILL NOT hear you with the metal one, so it is worth buying even if you end up not using it a lot and actually I do hope you won't have to use it daily

Then I'd like to add, was this person moaning about you practicing during 'reasonable' hours?, I understand maybe he/she was trying to study/revise, could you find out where they are (probably right next to you) talk to them and agree to a 'schedule' where some of the times you will use the mute and sometimes you can play without? so that you can both be 'happy neighbours'? so that he/she can study/revise and you also? (your violin)

I know you personally and you are such a sweet approachable person, I can't imagine they would not want to talk to you and sit down and agree to a schedule I could not possibly say no to you

ps sorry just re-read your post, it was THE famous 'note'!!! pah!!! I HATE notes!!!
just knock on a couple of neighbour's doors and politely ask if it was them, that's what I had to do in the past with a 'similar problem' which was concerning something else not a violin

Thankyou Jo! I will buy a metal mute but I'm not looking forward to using it I have to say.

I think the note arrived while I was practising between 6.30-7pm today, so not an antisocial time per se and the practice I do in my room is rarely more than 30 mins a day as I do some in the practice rooms too, but since I don't have a piano in my room I use most of my time in the practice room for piano.

Maybe I will do as you say and try and discuss it with them...except that I wonder if this note is actually the result of discussion between more than one person, and having a 'me against them' struggle would not be fun at all!

One side of the story is that I am at a very academic university, people take their work seriously and don't like their concentration being disturbed...however, if this person had been allocated a room in a different area of the building then they would simply have to put up with noise, because all the music students have rooms near each other, they all have pianos in their rooms and obviously it's accepted that they make noise. Of course, the people who live in that area who play instruments even if they don't study music can play all they like because noise is normal down there, whereas here I am the only one playing. Obviously there is other 'studenty noise' around too, but I guess it's the fact my noise happens every day, even if not for very long, and that from their point of view it's 'unnecessary', that gets on people's (or someone's at least) nerves.

I'd avoid fanning any flames in this situation and try and reach a compromise. Play with a mute in the evenings, but if they complain about you playing without earlier in the day stand your ground.

The metal one really does cut volume down, but isn't satisfying to use lol. Out of necessity though, I use mine.

yes, the metal mute makes you sound like some 'life-less' boring twig whatever you do with your bow and you won't hear your very minor intonation mistakes so don't use it too regularly or don't rely on it for learning NEW stuff but better than nothing
could you move to the 'noisy' neighbourhood? then you can play anytime you like and wear ear plugs when you study/sleep?

Thanks both of you. I've ordered a metal mute...I have to say though, if you can't hear intonation problems and you can't hear your tone production, what is left that you can do?

Personally whenever I'm doing work that require serious concentration I go to the library which is all of 30 seconds away, but of course I can't force that on other people!

Moving to the noisy area isn't an option for this year but I will try for next year - and/or I'll consider getting an electric piano so I can do some completely silent piano practice in my room.

it's only the very minor intonation erros you can't hear well, but yes, tone production 'forget it'
I agree it's not great news practicing with a mute when you are an advanced student especially 'regularly'
whether you'd be better off with an electric piano instead so that you can practice violin in the practice room I don't know as I am not a piano student, you should ask a piano person if practicing regularly on an electric piano has any 'drawbacks'?
and yes, move to the noisy side next year as like you said you would be willing to go to the library to study and next year is only september so not that bad

Ahem! If I remember correctly, Jojo, you are a piano student. Just on a longterm break before you realise it is too beautiful an instrument to justify leaving behind

have only done up to grade 3 and gave up 2 and a half years ago so I don't think I know enough to give advice (and am too busy on my 'fellowship in violin quest' to go back to it (which will keep me busy for at least a good ten years or more )

I think you should be able to practice to some extent, only because, its the same situation if someone has their television on or radio (from my experience of living in student accommodation). As long as you are sensible about it. Their never seemed to be a problem about it all and everyone seemed to be happy. If you have any idea who it is, could you try and speak with them, or find out when they are out??
Live and let live i say! Perhaps you could get them to take up violin as well!!!!!

I have to admit my sympathies are with the other student. The sound of proper practising is a lot harder to blank out than loud recorded music or a TV. Particularly when studying for finals or doing project work I couldn't work effectively in the library. I needed my computer and found the library too distracting....all those interesting books. I got so stressed on the build up to exams that I doubt I'd have managed a polite note if someone had been playing anything other than complete pieces within earshot. Normally I'm very tolerant of practising and get annoyed with moaning neighbours. Student accommodation is a bit different. Less space per person and minimal sound insulation plus exams and coursework deadlines is a bad combination.

Yes it is annoying having to use practise rooms, my playing suffered during finals as I couldn't afford the fee to use the practise rooms and playing was banned in campus rooms. Hopefully your mute will be a reasonable compromise. Good luck getting a 'noisy' room next year.

Rosie, you have my sympathy, as you seem very considerate and this is a difficult one. You are obviously aware that it's not fair to expect your neighbours to vacate their rooms in order to study in peace - they are study bedrooms after all. You could perhaps try practising in your room in the morning (not too early!!) or afternoon when most people are out at lectures? As others have said, metal mutes cut a lot of the noise out, but it's nowhere near as good as practising properly, it's only useful for practising fingerings or bowing patterns. Or could you organise your practice differently so that you have a practice room booked when you want to make some serious noise?

Incidentally, I used to live in the room below a music student who was a violinist. Sometimes I used to like hearing him play, other times I wished he would shut the flipping heck up. Whichever mood I was in, I simply couldn't work while he was playing. As a musician myself, albeit one who was far too self-conscious to practise in my room where everyone could hear me, I couldn't help but listen to this person's practice. For me, listening and studying are mutually exclusive, and I know I am not alone.

Wow thats me too - I am waaay to self-conscious to practice when others might hear me lol

Rosie, I'd say go for the mute as it solves both the noise problem for neighbours and your practice problem instantly.
Once you get used to the 'new sound' (or lack of it!), you will very quickly be able to pick out intonation problems, and also work with tone and bowing just as you did before.
I thought I'd hate using one, but as I had no choice, I just did it and got into it.
I had 2 problems arise from it - firstly I strained my bowing arm through subconsciously pressing harder to try and play louder(!), secondly, played solely with it for weeks and then when I took it off I couldn't bear the volume and ended up playing too quietly/cautiously without it!
So just try to play with it as though it wasn't there, and make sure when the neighbours are out or there is a practice room free you take the opportunity to let rip!!

that's interesting Miffy, thank you for sharing your experience, maybe I have not used it enough
I hate them so much the most I've used them is only 2 days in a row!!! so maybe that's why I can't tell the minor intonation problems and tone problems with them, I have not used them long enough

When i was in halls at uni i hated it because could not stand the music that people played
But, felt that people have to learn to live together to some extent, hehehe. But everyone has different
ways,means, thoughts,habits,abilities and so on and so on................

[quote name='jojo' date='Feb 7 2011, 06:00 PM' post='1028900']
[quote name='miffy' post='1028889' date='Feb 7 2011, 05:21 PM']
Rosie, I'd say go for the m



It's kind of like soya milk - I knew I had to swap from cows milk so I just got on with it and got used to it

I used to live next door to a student who played the flute, and I loved hearing her play. However, that was years ago.
I am learning the violin and do use a metal mute, my neighbour never hears me, but I will try to play without it when I know he has gone out, and of course when my tutor is with me, it is wonderful to hear the sound properly. One thing I do find using the mute is that my bow doesn't go too near the bridge, but as soon as I remove the mute my bow sometimes slides too far up the bridge. I need to work on bowing technique more.

Although I've only recently purchased a metal practice mute, I've spent some time finding out as much as I can (both here and through other musicians I know)about the effects on my practice that using the mute will have. I'm now of the opinion that the key word is 'Practice', and that it shouldn't be 'Learning'. I've been using mine mainly during fingering exercises, scales and arpeggios, and for pieces that I'm very confident with.

The huge danger is the way the metal mute masks tonality, string crossing errors and musicality when playing, but I think that as long as you are aware of the limitations, it can be used when these points aren't the main target of your practice sessions. Intonation is only marginally compromised by a metal mute, so if the drive of your practice session is intonation, then a mute can be used with confidence.

If I'm focussing on a particular shift, or anything that I'm going to repeat an awful lot - therefore risking the wrath of my neighbours (block of flats, you can hear everything going on) then using the mute is adequate. I don't want to have half my attention on whether or not I'm driving people crazy, when I'm trying to get something right. At the moment, I'm kind of experimenting with a particular scale, with the intention of practising the shifts involved using the mute, and then discussing the progress and any problems with my tutor, and then going from there. Once I find a level that I'm comfortable with when using a mute, I'll know what to look out for, what useful play I can get when using it.

One interesting comment that I'd come across when discussing the use of a mute, is that it is only a more extreme version of the way that room acoustics can mask errors in play, and foster bad habits. With music, we're dealing with the generation of sound and how that sound is received by those listening - knowing how to adapt your style to the acoustics of a room is part of the experience of learning to play. The mute is a severe example of this, but learning how to use it effectively is the key.

I'm fortunate that, I can play without a mute at any reasonable time of the day, without having to worry about complaints, but will still use it for playing later into the evening. Sorry (OP) that you've had the dreaded 'note' thing - my tutor had a problem neighbour, who actually had some kind of environmental officer from the council turn up at her address, during my lesson to warn her about the 'Noise Nuisance'.

Plus, as mentioned in my other thread, I like the sound with the mute in place (that's like/interested by, not prefer!!!)