Hi everyone,
I'm facing a bit of a problem trying to decide whether to do the ABRSM performance diploma for piano, or Trinity's ATCL.

It was definitely going to be AB because I did all my grades with this board, but I'm a bit frustrated with some of the AB recital stipulations: firstly that you aren't supposed to play more than one piece by the same composer, and two that you should play something from almost every period.
The Trinity regulations seem to be much more flexible, and more like giving a general public recital. It just states that you should choose a range of coherent styles and tempi,etc. You also don't have to do the quick study or viva, just some notes. Aside from this are both diplomas rated much the same?

I've spent over a year now learning a couple of Brahms pieces which are very contrasting, and I really wanted to finish with these rather than having to learn something 20th century/modern as well. I'm already doing a classical sonata and a Bach P&F, so I'd hoped that would be enough. It seems very difficult trying to produce a coherent recital that also covers every period in just 30-35mins.

Has anyone else been in this situation? I had thought the Associated Board would be a better Diploma to have generally, and for teaching (which I'm thinking of starting in the next few years), but I've heard that ATCL is of a high standard and difficult to pass as well.
Does anyone have any thoughts or advice?

Hi there!

My experience is as a singer rather than a pianist, but in summary:

Trinity diplomas - interesting repertoire but awful customer service.

Associated Board - much better customer service, but not necessarily as appealing repertoire, and "closed shop" attitude to other qualifications.

LCM - remains to be seen how the experience continues when I actually take the exam, but the customer service has been good so far.





I originally chose to do ATCL rather than DipABRSM or DipLCM/ALCM as it had more interesting repertoire. I was also keen on the flexibility to add own-choice repertoire through the programme approval process.

Having done ATCL, the options for my second diploma were limited by the fact that the Associated Board won't recognise anyone else's diplomas at the same level. So if I'd wanted to take LRSM I'd have had to do the DipABRSM too, and that struck me as a waste of an exam fee as I already had a first diploma. LCM again didn't appeal on the basis of the repertoire.

So my second diploma was LTCL. An exam memorable for features such as not getting an exam date until I phoned and complained a week before it was due... and getting examined by an accompanist rather than a singer...and not receiving the exam certificate until four months after I passed the exam..... Still, I passed and so I moved on.

I then did the Associated Board teaching dip. Was thoroughly impressed by the efficiency of the arrangements and the professionalism of the examiners, and found that neither the Quick Study nor the Viva were as daunting as I expected. Notably, it's the only diploma for which I've got a distinction.


My Fellowship plans were made on the basis that my first two performing diplomas were with Trinity so I'd aim for that. FRSM was still out for the same reasons as LRSM - they won't accept my LTCL as a prerequisite.

The nature of the repertoire list for Fellowship, certainly for singers, means that you can't do a programme just off the list, you have to get approval.

So I sent off a programme for approval and, after a number of communications mess-ups, I got it approved and had a go at the exam.

That first attempt wasn't a good experience - I wasn't that impressed at being examined by two examiners neither of whom was a singer, and neither of whom actually had a Fellowship themselves; having the exam date being changed in the week before the exams didn't help either. Nor did being ushered into the exam, and then ushered out again and then brought back in again due to a communication breakdown between the examiners and the organiser outside.

Those didn't help, although to be fair, my failing the exam was due to not delivering my programme well enough, and it not being a good enough programme to start with.

So I took time out to consolidate my skills and rebuild my repertoire before applying with a new programme to try FTCL again...

and waited for the programme approval process...

and waited some more....

and finally got fed up of waiting over three months after starting the process.

I instead sent my programme proposal to LCM, and got approval to do FLCM in less than four hours.

So my next exam will be an attempt at FLCM.

This has generally been my experience too - Trinity are very poor at communication, and generally, the staff seem disinterested. AB good, but as Katyjay says, a bit snobby about alternative qualifications. LCM have always been good - super-fast responses to queries (which often go straight to the Chief Examiner who replies the same day) and the actual experience very pleasant and friendly.

I would suggest having a look at the LCM diplomas so you can compare all 3 - I'm considering doing ALCM instead of DipABRSM, as the repertoire list contains pieces I've been working on recently and they have some interesting recital options which may suit me better than the DipABRSM. I have read somewhere in the regulations though that you have to play one piece by a living composer although I haven't followed this up much yet. The other consideration for me is that the exam session starts earlier than the week before Christmas! I may also consider doing ATCL but I didn't have a good experience with Trinity when I did my teaching diploma and although I think their admin has improved since then, I want to avoid a similar experience again. I use Trinity for grade exams for most of my pupils and they have been fine but they are not very amenable or flexible in the case of queries or the odd problem which has arisen.

I'm going for ATCL for the 'interesting repertoire' reasons. I'm looking forward to dealing with the admin department : I hope they deal with me properly...

I have no experience of Trinity College, but I have taken diploma exams with both LCM and the ABRSM. My experience (which may not be typical) is that although the Associate diplomas (ALCM, DipABRSM) are supposed to be of similar level, the AB is much stricter in its demands and much harder to pass (I did not pass, and have to retake the recital part of the exam).

This explains something that had bothered me before attempting the DipABRSM - why the AB does not accept ALCM or ATCL as a pre-requisite qualification for their LRSM exam.

As or friendliness, good organization, professionalism etc., there is nothing to choose between them.

Thanks everyone for all the replies so far.
It's a bit concerning about the experiences some of you have had with Trinity. I think my nearest centre would be Cambridge, so hopefully they are more efficient there. If I decide to drop one of the Brahms pieces and finish with some Bartok or Prokofiev then I may stick with ABRSM. Good luck katyjay with the FLCM attempt, and Mad Tom with retaking your DipABRSM. Hopefully it will be a smoother experience second time around.

One attraction with ATCL is that apart from spoken introductions you can just perform and then leave. I can imagine it being more of an ordeal with AB then having to sit the Viva and Quick Study, whilst in the back of your mind you are thinking about the recital and where you might have gone wrong... Now its sounding like a daunting prospect!

The Trinity diplomas are run from the head office, so unfortunately it doesn't make much of a difference where you sit your diploma.

Personally I have not found the QS and Viva bits of my diploma an ordeal after the recital, but that, and the choice of diploma depend entirely on you and where your strengths lie. I've had consistently highish marks for Viva, middling marks for QS and lowish marks for recital, so the ABRSM diplomas suit me.

Erm, well, as someone who *thought* she would get lowish marks for the recital and highish marks for Viva and actually ended up with lowish marks for Viva and highish marks for the recital, I've wondered whether Trinity might be a better idea next time around... but then I remember that I am also someone whose teacher is from Singapore, so I'm unlikely to get a choice there... Seriously speaking, I think it makes sense to start with ABRSM, as they are snobbish about prerequisites, and then depending on how you do there you can switch to another if you don't like the QS and the Viva.

Although nowhere near katyjay's level I can second her summing up of the differences between the two boards.
I'm a pianist and was faced with a similar choice a couple of years ago. I opted for Trinity for the Recital because all I wanted was performance experience, and that with a disinterested listener who hadn't (a) paid to hear me or (b) wanted to be tactful and © knew what they were talking about. The city in which I live has discontinued its music festival which I entered once and came third, so that was not an option.

I didn't see the point in putting myself through a Viva or a quick study because I have done that kind of thing before. Also, I intend to take a teaching diploma in the medium term with the AB so I will gain experience with more than 1 board.
It is the case though that if you begin the performing diploma route with Trinity, you either have to stick with it or try LCM (I've no experience of that one) because AB are a bit snooty about recognizing other boards. Their loss; my fees will go elsewhere for this and Trinity is just as highly regarded standards-wise, apart from the iffy customer service. Their certificates are pretty, too.

Yes, I think I will do the same mel2! Thanks for the advice.
My teacher thinks the Trinity diploma suits my programme choice better than AB, and it will also save me from the slightly daunting prospect of the Viva and Quick Study. I can treat it more like a public recital - in and out with a quick thank you and goodbye! I'll discuss it with my teacher but we're hoping to enter for this November/December.
I would also like to starting teaching privately soon. I'm going to start with my nephew first and see how we get on. My previous teacher got her teaching diplomas through AB, after she had taught pupils for a number of years, so I could take their diploma later on as well. Good luck with preparing for yours. It'll be good to have one from each board, and you'll have two sets of letters to put after your name!

Was it by luck or by design that you seem to have managed to put together a programme that will fit either board?
Are there a lot of pieces common to both?

Not sure if you mean me or Matt-steck and his teacher.
I didn't put my programme together until I had decided to go with Trinity (after reading past discussions on here!) and had formed the plan to do performance/recital with TG and teaching with AB.

I'm not completely au fait with the AB performance syllabus but I recall with the associate level that a great many works were common to both.

The simple answer is: Try them all. It is very rewarding process.

All the best!

conf. FLCM FRSM LTCL

the ATCL can be taken at any trinity centre approved for diplomas and is therefore run by the rep not head office so if you have a good rep it can all run very smoothly - just as two of my student's did last summer. In fact, my local centre had not been approved as a diploma centre but I asked if it could be and the Head Office approved it very quickly. I may have just been lucky but I have never had any administrative problems with Trinity Guildhall since they merged (previously I had with Guildhall) so would be happy to recommend them for practical exams and diplomas.

A couple of the pieces aren't on the Trinity syllabus but are on the AB. You are allowed lots of own choices though with Trinity, as long as you send the whole programme in for approval prior to entering the exam. We'll do that next, but my teacher thinks they should be fine.

Do this as early as possible. This is done at their head office rather than through the rep, so however good your rep is, and whatever your teacher thinks, this can be slow. Aside from this, their customer services seems to depend entirely on the rep, so it's worth going to a centre with a good, efficient one, if you can do some research.

I'm sad and a little surprised to hear other's problems getting programmes approved by Trinity Guildhall. I submitted a programme including own-choice items last year for approval, and I must have been lucky as I had approval , by email, within two weeks. Maybe I was the exception rather than the rule.
But I agree- it's always best to get any administrative aspects sorted out well in advance, and not leave anything until later which could hold up your diploma's progress.

My experience with Trinity was very positive. Prompt reply when I submitted my programme (as I had included own choice repertoire) and although the certificate does take some time to arrive, when mine arrived severely damaged (Royal mails fault, not Trinity) they replaced it within about 2 weeks. A big thumbs up from me, and will be using them for Licentiate dip when I get my act together...eventually....

Had my student's programmes confirmed by email within a few days last spring

Gave up after 18 weeks waiting this winter

18 weeks??? Oh dear, thats enough to put anyone off