Hi all,

I am currently grade 6, and am intending to skip 7 and dive straight into 8. I got a good way into 7 on the 2009-10 syllabus, but being a parent of young children made it difficult for me to get the pieces up to scratch before running out of time. With (just under) 2 years left on the current syllabus, I might as well go straight for 8.

I really like the Bach capriccio (A1) and also the Chopin Nocture (C4). I am not put off by the big stretches or complex fingering that Bach will require, and as a adult I feel that I can do a really musical rendition of the Chopin.

The B choice is proving difficult though. I have started the Rondo, but I feel that speed will be a real issue. My hands are often tired and slow, and getting such a long piece up to speed seems like a huge task. Does anyone have any suggestions for a B piece that won't be too demanding on my old hands, but still complement my A and C choices?

Many thanks,

Peter

Hmm... I'm not familiar with all the pieces on the syllabus, but from what I know I would recommend the Haydn in C# or Schubert if you are trying to avoid speed. I personally much prefer the Schubert (not a huge Haydn fan), but the Haydn would probably contrast better with the Chopin. My favorite piece from list B is the Mozart by far, it's not a great choice if agility isn't one of your strengths.

Just wondering, you mention "big stretches" in the Bach, but I'm working on this capriccio (along with the rest of the partita) - where are the stretches? I have small-ish hands (can reach an octave and just about grab a ninth), and I don't see that this piece (or any of the Bach I've played) requires a large handspan. It doesn't exactly lie within the hands comfortably because the fingerings required can be "complex" as you say (in a worse mood I would say contortionist! =P), but I've never found the size of my hands to be an issue... any thoughts?

I personally think that the Bach Capriccio is a real stinker for Grade 8 ! Well done if you can bring it off, I certainly cant. And I have big hands (can get a 10th with ease), but I do find it difficult to maintain accuracy on these leaps. Oddly LH is easier than RH, but back to the question.....
For List B I prefer the Haydn Eflat (C7) - yes its Allegro Moderato, but not fearsomely fast, and no long bits of 'passage work' The C# minor is slower, but I dont like it as much. The Mozart is also good , but its pretty fast !

Good luck, and welcome to the forums !

Being an adult learner, I sympathise with your predicament. The Grade 8, List B choices always prove the toughest challenge in selecting what will work best for you, as stylistically (and technically sometimes), they can be quite similar to each other. The B2, Field's 'Allegro Moderato', is surprisingly lyrical and manageable - it falls well under the hands, and I found it really grows on you. Also, being a Haydn fan I recommend the Sonata in E flat too, but my favourite is the C Sharp Minor - not easy if agility is not your strong point though.

denmark

Thank you all for the suggestions...have already listened to some of them, but I think I'm going to have to buy the CD and the music for some of the alternate pieces and give them a try.

One of the issues for this list with me is that I am not a fan of the classical era... I would normally choose Baroque/Romantic/Jazz but the B list is fully of classical pieces with the romantics in C.

The Mozart is actually quite nice, and although some of it is quite fast, it is an easy read and in a fairly simple key. This could be an option for me, but does choosing this mean ditching the Capriccio for something less similar?

I agree with you, fsharpminor - the Caprccio is a stinker, but I am my own worst enemy where this type of piece is concerned - I just love playing them! Lilly: When I wrote "stretches" I really meant "leaps".

Peter

Though it's good to learn to think about programming it's not essential to have it as a major consideration at grade level. Except for your own satisfaction of course.
Though I might try to obtain a good balance in a grade exam you might as well play to your strengths and play what you really like. That is unless you want to use the exam particularly to see how you manage when programming IS an important factor.

My grade 8 is on 1st of July and I'm playing the Bach capriccio and Beethoven Rondo and you've lost me about tempi.

I'm sorry but as far as agility is concerned the Bach is harder that he Beethoven by far.

Stretches: my hands are tiny! These are leaps that need lots of floated elbow for control

With the exception of the septuplet on the final page there isn't anything particularly fast in the Beethoven at all.

cf Argerich playing the Bach and Baremboim playin the Beethoven.

The main point is with the Beethoven there is a sense of Alla Breve time i.e it is in 2time, it is only marked moderato after that!

Agreed, Barenboim is a good reference for a not-too-fast interpretation of the Beethoven (which I much prefer). Though the capriccio certainly doesn't have to go as fast as Argerich plays it! (in fact, I like Gould's tempo more)

Gould's tempo is much safer, Argerich is exciting. Barenboim not only plays the Beethoven with a sure feeling of 2 ina bar, but gives a full sense of dynamics and expression.

Lily I think were in agreement there. However there are aspects or Argerich's playing I find tantalisingly wonderful even if over all I prefer the Gould.

Oh, certainly. Who knows... if I could play it as fast as Argerich, maybe I would But I've noticed that in general "lesser" (but very good) pianists who play it as fast as Argerich tend to lose clarity (which she maintains to an surprising degree), so in general I have to say I don't think her tempo is appropriate, even if she can manage it.

An extremely interesting thread ... I'm happy to read about Grades 7-8 at last!
I'm preparing my Grade 7 for next year and since all the pieces are almost ready, I would already like to get started on Grade 8 so as to take the exam in June 2012 (or maybe 2013). I've already started learning the Bach Capriccio, which I love and ejoy learning so much and am halfway through (or course, still at a little more than half-speed). I think given the right (extremely slow) practice over many months and with the right fingering, this piece may come quite well and I don't think one should get discouraged because one's an adult (BTW, I am 54!). If you enjoy learning something so much the chances are that you'll do a good job.
As for the rest of the pieces, I love the Schubert mov't and the Rachmaninoff M?lodie in E minor (I've downloaded a free copy of the latter from the Internet to see just how far beyond my reach this piece is but I haven't started yet).
I've no idea whether it is or not a good idea to get started on this syllabus as forcing things is usually a bad thing, especially when studying an instrument, but since I've done about 6 pieces of the Grade 7 syllabus (none to perfection, of course) I may give Grade 8 a try.

my analysis of the requirements for grade 8 are
A list: Counterpoint
B list: Sonata movement either sonata form or rondo, mainly Classical period or early 19th Century.
C list: 19th or 20th Century Character Piece

Each requires different technical and musical requirements from the candidate.

You need to be both technically and musically ready to take the exam.

The scale/arpeggios support the repertoire as do certain questions in the aural paper.

At this level in order to learn this sort of repertoire in a timely and efficient manner one needs to be an efficient sight-reader hence the sight reading requirement.

The result a balanced exam.

So when I hear remarks about tired hands and hands being slow given the ther requirements, it does make me wonder, are you ready for Grade 8?

This exam lasts for 30 minutes, the B list piece is about 5 of them and the Rondo from the Pathetique really isn't that quick.

The scales are by far the hardest element of this examination speaking as someone who is about to take it.

There is much more to being a good pianist than ideally sized hands (speaking as someone whose hand-size is somewhat of a handicap)

I don't think that is necessarily true. Scales were a pain for me only because I had never practiced them before (grade 8 was my first exam, so I never prepared scales for any other exam before that and my teacher didn't ask me to practice them) and it was a lot to remember. But in the physical sense (which the OP was talking about in terms lack of agility), I never found scales tiring compared to pieces. I consider myself someone who has trouble with agility and fast playing, but simple scalar figurations have never been a problem because they are as far from awkward as it is possible to get, so they don't tire out my hands, and the notes are by definition close together, so accuracy at high speeds isn't as much an issue.

I identify completely. I can play scales neatly and faster than the required tempo for Grade 7 (that's the one I'm taking next year) but have so much trouble with many other things (sight-reading for one!!!!!!!!).
I've started glancing at the Grade 8 syllabus and somehow mean to try some of the pieces but I'm not a Grade 8 yet (nor am I a Grade 7, for that matter!).
So what's the advice for a Grade 7ish trying to tackle some of the Grade 8 pieces? Wait until the next syllabus is published because it may be "easier" or attempt some of the 2011-2012 pieces?

I would say to start trying out some of the 2011-2012 pieces, not with a view to playing them in the exam but simply because there are some lovely pieces on there which are well worthy of your attention.
As regards taking the exam, you'd have up until session A in 2013 in which to use that syllabus and if you were ready you could take the exam then. Otherwise you'd need the new syllabus which will be published around July 2012 (or thereabouts). Learning some pieces from this syllabus, even if you then need to switch to the new because of time constraints, will stand you in good stead as you are constantly developing technique, stamina and interpretation.

I love the Smetana Polka in list C - I had to buy the B?renreiter edition of the polkas in order to get it as it was an alternative piece but there are loads of lovely pieces in that book aside from the one on the syllabus.
I can also recommend the Madsen Prelude and Fugue - the prelude is absolutely gorgeous and not horrendously technically difficult. The Fugue is much more complex so maybe leave that for a bit
Of list B, I like Schubert the best. I also like the Mozart and Field in the book although they both consist of several pages of fiddliness. Beethoven is lovely too - I learnt this a view years ago and I still enjoy revisiting it and looking at it in a new light every now and then.
The C list I haven't really looked at, apart from playing through the pieces when the book came.

Well, great advice! It sounds very balanced.
Deep down, I know that these pieces are worth trying irrespective of when I can take the exam. I've already set my eyes on:
-List A: Bach's Partita (indeed, I've already done about half of it but thetre are issues regarding speed and neatness which I'll take a veeeeery loooooong time to solve)
- List B: the Schubert movement, which doesn't sound so hard (however, I don't know about the hidden difficulties).
- List C: I love the Rachmaninoff M?lodie in E minor.

Your post sounds very wise, have you got any other views on muy choices? How about the scales/arpeggios for Grade 8?

This couple of years selection is really very pleasant with a number of the pieces worth learning in and of there on right without the need for including them for Grade 8.

My suggestion would be for people of this level to start gathering a library of decent editions together.

Include Bach WTC books 1 + 2 Henle Verlang
Complete Mozart Sonatas Henle or Bairenreiter
Schubert Impromtus and Sonatas
Scarlatti Sonatas
Beethoven Sonatas

Purchase Urtext editions and when buying individual Debussy Preludes for example buy the whole lot in the best edition.

Obviously at new prices this lot is not cheap so buy bit by bit, or look at Jumble Sales and Secondhand book stalls, and ask for these to be given to you as presents.

Once you have the library you will really benefit from it.

Juan Carlos, if your grade 7 scales are really secure, I see no reason why you shouldn't get hold of the grade 8 book and begin to look at those as well. There are a lot to get to grips with eg. diminished 7ths starting on any note, a wider range of keys, scales in 3rds in all of the keys as well as the lovely scales in 6ths (see the thread that Jod started recently). So there would be no harm at all in beginning the scales as long as you keep the grade 7 ones up to scratch.
They took me a long long time to get up to scratch because I had 20 years of playing between grade 7 and 8 and didn't do any scales. It took me 9 months of concentrated work to get them all there. I spent more time on them than the pieces.

It didn't take me quite that long... about 3 months but yes they are not pretty. actually there are only 3 dim7ths, the others are all inversions of each other.

don't forget those wonderful legato parallel third scales and the chromatics a minor third a part starting on any note.

Only 3dim7ths... doh... of course! Missed that one

The chromatics a minor 3rd weren't too bad but I could never remember by the end of the scale which notes I had started on - did it in the exam too - went too far and came back and landed on the wrong notes but the examiner didn't notice - he said the chromatic was good!

F sharp minor in 6ths and E flat minor in 6ths took forever to crack.

I think my advice for anyone tackling grade 8 would be "Don't underestimate the scale requirements".

I used to get all sorts of wise cracks about dumb sopranos, and the fact I was unusual for a soprano because I could read music and was good a theory, and how come I had majored in musicology.

However it has come in rather handy when trying to learn this lot!

Fortunately, I already do all the scales a 3rd apart and a 6th apart, all keys. I've learnt them over the last 18 months or so and they come quite secure (both legato and staccato) so that's done. I should get started on the others but scales never frighten me.

I am envious! However, more seriously this is a big plus.

The pieces this time are really beautiful there are a number of super ones to choose from.

Listen to a selection and choose the ones you like from that list.

Either Beethoven or the Mozart D major is a gift for a natural scale player.

Having learned the Field Sonata (1st movement), I can highly recommend it - some tricky
parts but overall really enjoyed learning it :-)

I can see the difficulty in choosing something from List B. With the possible exception of the Clementi, every piece is a great masterpiece.

The Rondo from Beethoven's Pathetique is not at all easy. The sections in triplets demand clear articulation. As you have found already,it is difficult to play well at speed, but it works quite well at a leisurely pace too (as played by Claudio Arrau for example).

My choice would be the sonatas movement by Field. It is lovely, middling difficulty, and not so well known that the examiner wil have strong opinions about how it ought to be played (a drawback of the Pathetique and other very popular pieces).

[From list A, Scarlatti K27 takes a lot of work to get it comfortably fluent, but it is worth it. From List C I already have Chopin Op 32/1 in my repertoire, and it is a lovely piece, so may as well use it. But you cannot really go wrong. The list is crammed with great music]