I second that. I tend to think that all the practising is stored up and its effect may only be seen in sudden jumps.

Oh dear
I hope you'll feel better after your lesson.


EDIT: Apologies to Arundodonuts for somehow having failed to attribute the quotation above to him.



Paradoxically, as my teacher pointed out to me at my last lesson, the fact that you think you are regressing means you are progressing as it shows you have become more critical of your own playing

And don't forget, you had a major operation last year and didn't play at all for several months, it's more than likely that you are still suffering the after effects of that.

I go through ups and downs all of the time with regards to my flute playing. I hope you feel better now.

A disorganised ramble on dispiritedness and despondency -

I used to think in very "black and white" ways which usually meant that if I was having a bad day, I felt like I wanted to give up and stop totally. There wasn't really anything in between, I was either OK or wanting to give up, never just merely annoyed with my playing.

I realised that sometimes I felt as though I didn't have the right to be anything other than totally happy or totally depressed about my playing. I don't know why. I think part of it was that I was afraid of feeling negative about it, because I had so much of my self-esteem based on music. So I wasn't allowed to feel bad about something that was so much a part of me.

That was more than ten years ago when I was a music student. I then had a break of 7 or so years. This time around, relearning piano, I feel like my life is more balanced so piano is just any other activity that I do. It's one that I enjoy more than others but I no longer feel like my music is 90% of what makes me me. So, somehow, I have given myself "permission" to be annoyed by it the same as I get annoyed about things going slightly wonky at work, or the Tube being delayed, or it raining when I don't have an umbrella, etc.

Now if I am having a bad day I can more easily just say, forget it for today and try again tomorrow. I used to tie myself in knots feeling guilty about feeling bad about playing, and so on.

I've also come to realise how much the other things in my life affect my playing - if I've had a bad night's sleep, or a bad day at work, often I find myself lacking the energy to practise properly. Sometimes of course the practising provides the oasis from the other problems, and then I get more out of it than I expect.

Tomorrow is another day to practise. If today doesn't go so well, there are many more days that will. Try not to be too hard on yourself and hope you get your mojo back soon.

Thank you all for your encouragement.


Unfortunately no lesson.

As you pointed out, I am still going through the after-effects of the operation. One of these is rather unsettling and symptoms came on again, so I couldn't go... last week I almost passed out in rehearsal and as it is quite a long drive I thought it wasn't safe to go on Tuesday. No doubt my sub-conscious is relieved not to be subjected to the lesson but I really missed not going to rehearsal and even solfeo class.

I haven't been able to play for a couple of days since...


I LOVE minor scales! I''m never asked to play them, though. I had the most stupid mental block with E major the other day. Major scales still a bit ropey, especially B and F# (better if I think of it as Gb! ). Anyway, I'm sure they'll come back again soon, Arundodonuts. with G7 entry.

Me too I'm trying not to worry on the grounds that some of them just refused to go in for G5 and G6 and I muddled through alright there. G# minor and F# minor are driving me crackers...

Going through the lack of motivation/guilt thing again

What are you feeling guilty about?

I'm feeling a bit better today. Too bad that my flatmate will be back too late for duets. I was so whacked yesterday I wasn't up to it when he came in. In fact, I was too whacked for any practice at all.

I need to reorganise myself.

The guilt when I haven't practised.

Had a bit of a better routine in the past few days.

So sorry to read about the lost of mojo on here.

To me it was the other way round. I was on a trip with husband and mother in law for 4 days and couldn't practise at all.
Combined with the feeling that this time I will surely fail the exam (wich is scheduled for the 15th of may) it was terrible.
Whe came home on saturday evening and I could practise on sunday evening. Afterwords husband said: "It is exactly what I say! If you take a brake from practice you improve!"
Well, I think the more important thing is, that I was much more relaxed than on days when I am at work.
But I also found out, that I face a new problem. I practise false harmonics every time I practise. And the new problem is too much air. I have to stop and first let out air to breath again. For me it is a good hint, that I have to make sure not thinking I need much air to play high notes.

Tonight I will have rehearsal with my accompanist and my teacher and my nerves show up.

All the best, schraeubchen. And it was very encouraging to hear about your successful post-holiday practice.

I am emerging from my slough of despond. One good practice session, then an oboe-less day due to migraine, a distracted practice day, followed by a lousy one. I expected the lesson to go dreadfully but it wasn't quite as bad as I expected.

A favourite practice strategy of my teacher's in recent times has been to use practice time efficiently by concentrating on the difficult fragments of a piece or exercises. But I seem to have gone from one extreme to another, and have got into the bad habit of stopping and starting, so now I have to do the reverse - more play-throughs from beginning to end - to develop stamina.

Thank you very much katica. I can imagine how hard it is to concentrate on practising in the situation you are in now.
My teacher just yesterday pointed out, that there are times when you feel like not progressing at all, but you are.

The rehearsal was not so good. My accompanist and I have both had a hard working day before and it showed. But now I have some special things to work on until next week and I think that is important.
My teacher found out what went wrong with double tonguing. It is that I stop the air flow for every single note and now I have to get rid of this within a few days.
And I haven't had enough inner tension while playing the Poulenc (which might have to do with having worked all day).
Next week I will have lesson on Wednesday and another rehearsal with accompanist and teacher on Thursday. So loads to do until then.

On the 13th of may I will have to play my exam pieces in public and on the 15th of may will be the exam.

I just had an idea how to practise doubletounging in the right way. I thought the pneumo pro must be perfect to do this, tried it and it works.

I have enjoyed using the pneumo-pro.

For double tonguing, I practise DDDD, GGGG, DGDG and GDGD. I also think about supporting and saying doo goo, rather than dah gah.

I am always nervous when I first meet an accompanist.

I still think the pneumo-pro is an amazing tool. Double tonguing is something special in my case, because I learned it about 30 years ago - in a wrong way - and now I have to relearn it and to get rid of all the bad habits that settled such a long time ago. I was just happy yesterday to find a solution to speed up the progress.

The rehearsal on Wednesday was already the fourth time we met to play the pieces, but it was the first time my teacher was with us and that made me nervous. But I am happy to have special things to work on.

OK, had another rehearsal with teacher listening and it was much better than the week before.
Close to the end of the rehearsal something like fun rised.
I found out, that things get much better when listening to the piano and not focussing so much on what I have to play.

Back to practise. I am working on making some things easier. Leaving right hand on the keys if I have to play e-flat, c'', e, c'', f, c'' or something like this, because it reduces the risk not to move fingers as even as necessary.
Double tonguing improves with help of the pneumo-pro.
And beside that I am reading a book about history of music to learn about the need of pieces from different periods of time. It helps to get better understanding of what I am playing.

Haven't posted here for a while but that is because I have actually been practising which makes a change

as if to make up for the terrible lesson three weeks ago, I had one last week in which I heard the magical words "Now we are getting somewhere". I guess this has been the sudden jump after a period of consolidation in which I've had to internalise stuff.

I have also started re-learning some old stuff with my teacher's blessing - and wow! The difference it makes, knowing some techniques for practising difficult bits. The one that has really helped was to break up the passages into clumps of "chords" to work out where my arm has to be, the idea being that I want to keep my elbow always in the center of my hand. I used to twist my wrist far too much, and that is not a stable movement at high speed.

I also realised that my music is entirely too clean. I seem to have learnt entire pieces without writing down any fingering, which has resulted in me fudging a lot of passages.

We are also slowly blowing away misconceptions left over from teachers long gone. I was told last week to raise my arm much higher when playing loud notes, so as to attack from the shoulder, and to play certain staccato passages with a flicking motion of the fingers. Both of these movements are ones that were slowly drilled out of me by a previous teacher, so I find myself always trying to mute the instinct to do them. Apparently according to my current teacher, I should follow my instinct.

In a previous lesson, I remember telling her that I could tell her all the "rules" for what I should and shouldn't do - but I couldn't necessarily execute them. This week I have been playing a game with myself which is to see where each rule applies (eg. lift fingers off keys faster, turn thumb under faster). It's something that I do a lot in my day job as a programmer, but I've never thought of applying it to practising before. I think it is working well.

I got to play a grand piano last week that I don't often get to play, so it's months between goes - and my sound has totally changed. It's something that I can't notice on my digital obviously. Things sound more... precise, and clearer, though I'm hard pressed to describe why I think that. It's a piano, each note is obviously clear not like with a horn where I can smear notes from one to another.


(And I was so curious, I had to look up what a pneumo-pro was )

It is inspiring to read your post Corenfa!! Thank you!

!!!

Good going, corenfa!

I had to sneak a google peek at a pnuemo-pro, too, I have to confess... I thought oboists were much more nerdy than anyone else about gadgets but that's quite impressive!!! I tried to describe it to my flautist neighbour at band rehearsal today but had to give up.

aw thanks.. Waiting to read about someone else's practise progress too!

I am trying to stay mindful while practising - have started going to yoga a couple of times a week and it is a good reminder that the whole point of this thread for me was to think about how I practise. The mental discipline has helped because I find myself getting distracted less.

Might be, that I am nerdy 'cause I work as a software engineer. But I really like this tool and I find it extremely helpful.



It's difficult for me to write about mindful practising while my exam date is next Tuesday and I suffer with nerves.
I had the last lesson before exam yesterday and the main item we talked about was my inner critic, who is so terrible to let me not play things good.
Now my homework is, play the fast pieces in slow motion, keep focussed on playing and try to send the inner critic away.
Beside that I think I should go into a serious talk with my inner critic.

Hello from another software engineer I think that it is an excellent thing to be nerdy about music (whether or not one is a software engineer) - being nerdy is a form of inquisitiveness which can only really be a good thing.

My inner critic has mostly shut up. but the thing that can derail me now when I am performing is that I perceive things differently. It's a heightened state of awareness that means I notice things that I might not otherwise, and while I am sometimes Ok at shutting this off, it doesn't always work. That's what leads to memory lapses for me.

I was thinking about this on the train into work today. I will try the next time I am practising to be in the same frame of mind and keep my concentration.

schraeubchen, all the best for your exam next week.

Hello fellow software engineer!
Thank you very much for your good wishes.

Maybe all we are discussing now is just the dark side of mindful practising.
The bright side is, that it helps a lot to identify the things to work on for improvement. The dark side is words like: "Soon comes the bit you cannot play anyway!" or things like that. And that's what I struggle with.
But I think, I have an idea how to handle it.

I will let you know what will happen.

I think that is a really interesting point - mindful can easily become overthinking. It's something I get hit by more often in non-musical senses.

I am realising more and more which old hangups have negative effects on my music. In a previous post I've mentioned not exaggerating movements too much because I had an old teacher who tried to untrain me of that even when it was the right thing to do. Today I realised that I avoid excessive dynamics and rubato because I think that it is something that bad musicians use to hide their lack of ability. And somehow in my head I have decided that if I use a lot of dynamics and rubato, I must be using it only to hide my lack of ability.

I think, using a lot of dynamics and rubato can be a sign of trying to hide lack of ability, but it can also be a sign of being highly musical if it is not too excessive. And I am sure that musicians will know what part of it is true.
But as a flute player I would never point out using much dynamics as a try of hiding lack of ability because using dynamics is not so easy on the flute.

Yesterday I tried another way of mindful practising for the fast pieces I struggle with. I first played them backward before playing them forward. It was really interesting, because they sounded so different and it made it much easier to keep focused. I hope it will help.

I think it's a question of honesty. I am a very amateur musician, not a good player, but that shouldn't stop me from trying to be an honest listener and a judge of my actions. If I slow down, is it honestly because I think this phrase works better slower/with a deceleration, or is it because it's just plain difficult? If I listen to recordings of proper musicians playing this piece, do they slow down there? If they don't, do I like what they do? More than what I do? Am I speeding up at this section because I can't find a way to make long notes interesting? If I listen to a professional, do they speed up? If not, is their playing boring? If not, why not?

Yes, I agree you can think about things too much, if the result is loss-of-confidence, and loss of the fun-factor. I suppose it would be sad if the inclination to use meaningless repetitive (low-value) practice got replaced by an obligation to practise in such an intensely thinking way that it became no fun.

Incidentally, how do others feel about the role of listening to professional performances as it relates to practising? I find it an important help: it sets the goal-posts, tells me what can be done, tells me what the music should sound like, and gives me a point of reference for my practice. But it has a negative side: it can be off-putting, and I can end up spending all the time I should have been practising, just listening instead. And it takes a braver amateur than me occasionally to say "Yes, but actually I would prefer this performed differently".

I'm sure it is valuable, but I think it's very important to recognise that you are not necessarily attempting to emulate the professionals. Firstly because they are likely to be doing things you can't yet achieve and secondly because of issues of taste. There are highly regarded professional oboists I don't have any great desire to copy because I don't like the way they do some things. Obviously it doesn't mean they are wrong (who am I to say that?) but they are doing something which is not to my taste. For that reason I think if you are going to listen to professionals you should listen to more that one playing the same thing if at all possible. Then come up with your own interpretation which suits both your taste and your abilities.

Generally when I'm working through something for the first time, I will try to give it a good looking at before listening to anyone else play it. That's going to get much harder to do as I head on up to the heights of "standard repertoire" as much of it I have already heard many times.

Indeed - and I also realise now that these are things that I know now, but didn't when I was forming my opinions as a music student.




I find it helpful to a point. For things which I can't play yet, it helps provide me with a guide to how it should sound in terms of the right notes. Hearing the overall pattern often helps me learn the piece.

I have got quite good at listening to something with a specific thing in mind and ignoring the rest. I find that it doesn't influence the way I play it, in that I'm not that likely to think it sounds "wrong" if it's not like the recording.

I do many times think to myself - I do not like that performance - even if it's someone famous. My thinking it is no less valid than anyone else's- that was something I struggled with for a while; the idea that i was "allowed" to have a valid musical opinion. I thought that I wasn't because I was too young, I had only been learning for X number of years, I didn't have a music degree yet, any number of reasons. All of which were/are rubbish. I may not be *an authority* on music, but I don't aspire to be, and having an opinion doesn't make me guilty of trying to claim that I am. I think if I'd realised this years earlier I'd have had a much easier life as a student.

I think on one hand it's a good thing to listen to recordings of the pieces I play, played by professionals. But on the long run I need to get to my own interpretation.

And it is always important to keep in mind, that recordings are often manipulated, often a bit in piano is quiter on the CD than it could be played and so on.

One practise slip-up that always happens to me is practising technical things at the expense of musical things. I always think that my technique is weak and that the musical stuff will just "come naturally". Because I never was taught any technique when I learnt as a child, i feel as though I have a lot of catching up to do. That is probably true, but I also need to think about what I want to say musically and it's hard to do that without thinking about it. I usually never give it much thought to the bits whose notes are "easy".

My experiences are that I think a lot about I want to say musically but feel like my technique is much too weak to do so. That's my reason to practise technique to extend.

Yes! That is exactly why I practise, because all the "fun stuff" which I could say a lot with musically is too difficult for me at the moment.

I hope your exam went well - was it yesterday?

This week I have been trying out two new practise methods. The first is that when I have a tricky passage, to find other instances of similarly tricky passages in other pieces and practise those as well. It keeps the tedium down.

The second is mental (I mean in the sense of "pertaining to the mind", not "insane" ). I find that something that can derail me in performances is getting distracted. Part of it is due to playing in a different environment, and part of it is because I am in a heightened state of awareness. Some of the heightened state of awareness is conscious - I try harder to "bring the music out".

It occurred to me that part of my performance practise should be to cultivate that same heightened state of awareness. It shouldn't be something that I only do when I'm on stage.

I also have been trying to intentionally let myself be distracted, then bringing my mind back to the piece. I'm pleased that I have actually managed to derail myself a few times - I am conscious of the fact that I got derailed when i did, and I have managed to bring the focus back a few more times too.

Just recorded myself (yay for digital pianos) and played it back

On the one hand, I think to myself: wow, I managed to memorise play all the notes in that, and there are even some musical ideas coming through. My first instinct is to say BUTBUTBUT (see next point), but I shall keep firmly in my mind that memorising and learning all the notes is in itself an achievement, and I ought to be pleased with that, but not complacent.

On the other hand, I am really cringing at some of the bits that i thought I could play Nonetheless, this is interesting because it shows the discrepancy between hearing and wishful listening.

Still, in the privacy of my own home is the best time to play in a cringeworthy way. I really need to record myself a lot more. I'm not really even that hung up about listening to myself any more because recording has been so beneficial in the past.

Hi corenfa,

sorry for not answering for such a long time. I haven't been at the computer yesterday and the day before.

Some parts of my exam went well some didn't. I would say, I played the pieces better than ever before. But the rest was more fighting with everything than music.
The examiner was again a very friendly and patient person with a lot of humour. That makes it easier.

But the most important thing was, that during my solo piece I had the idea: "You have this big room just for you to fill it with sound!"
For someone always suffering with nerves when performing in public, it is a real big present. So even if I fail, this was to make it worth it.

I played my pieces in public on Sunday (the exam was on Tuesday) and recorded it. I listened to it on Monday morning and tried to listen to it as it was someone else playing. And it sounded like music!
I am normally on the same side as you are, listening to my recordings picking up the things that went wrong and so on, but I think you can also practise to listen to your own recordings as it is someone else.

Hello folks, I've not been able to be very active on the Forum the last few days...

Well done, schraeubchen!!! It's a rare experience to play pieces "better than ever before" in an exam and it sounds as though the idea that occurred to you about having the room to yourself to fill with music was a moment of true enlightenment! I hope you get the great results that you deserve!

The comments about recording one's practice have raised a great sense of guilt in me. Firstly, because I have not practiced as frequently/much/well as a I should. But a couple of evenings I felt so exhausted I think it would have been counter-productive. Secondly, my teacher often tells me I should record myself but I always seem to manage to "forget" or find an excuse not to (batteries dead, short time to practice so no time to go find the recorder, etc). At the bottom of it is that I really loathe how I sound when I record myself.

That's brilliant!!!


That is also brilliant. I hope that the results reflect this feeling (not the one about failing!)


I love it when that happens - when you record it and then you realise, hey, that is music and *I* am playing it

I was thinking about this - I realise that with a digital piano, "my sound" is not really my sound - I press the notes, but they're essentially samples. If Rubinstein were to play my piano, it would still sound like my piano, he'd just be operating it a heck of a lot better than I am. Playing an acoustic instrument is probably much more "personal" in that the sound you produce really IS "your" sound. I used to be very self-conscious of my recorded sound when I was a horn player but a large part of that was just being very self-conscious about my music then. I can't tell whether I hated the way I sounded, recorded, or just was very self-critical.

I know what you feel like - I always seem to go BUTBUTBUT. Or get to the end of a piece and think urgh. I do find recording really helpful, even if I hate listening back to myself.


Sorry I missed your exam. Sounds like it went well, and I love the thought of just filling the room with music. I'll try it next time I play.


Also, bear in mind that recordings don't give an exact impression as to how you sound.

Thank you all for your lovely comments on my exam experience. Nicki, I want to keep this idea in my heart too. And soon I will have some occasions to try it out. I can only say it was a wonderful feeling, when it happened to me.

I am know on a master-class for one week. It started today and will go until next Sunday evening. I will have to play in public three times. First on Friday evening. Only for one minute, but a piece that is completely new for me and it contains modern flute techniques (singing and playing, fluttertongue and subito changing from mf to mp and things like this. And the c fourth octave occurs. A year ago I thought I will never be able to play this note.

Today I found out, that I will probably get my exam result on Wednesday afternoon.

Sorry for being short, but I already have to be ready for a group lesson in modern flute techniques.

Sorry for the delay.

I have a lesson tomorrow and going to try that thought tomorrow in my lesson.

What are you playing on Friday?

Oh, and did you get your exam result?

Random comment from today's lesson-

Teacher: Your thumbs look like sausages.
Me: they feel like sausages too...

I thought it was a good lesson

The main point from today's lesson was how much physical preparation is needed for learning pieces on the piano sometimes. I don't mean in the sense of weightlifting, but thinking about how to best get my hands and arms into the right positions to play things the most easily. All of the technical problems I displayed today were solved by "preparing" better - for example, I had a big octave stretch in the left hand preceded by some notes to be played by the 4th and 5th fingers. She said that while I am playing these preceding notes, I must be moving my thumb into position so that it is less of a jump. The other problems were all fixed by variations of this idea - moving some bit of some limb into position before I have to play a certain awkward bit. Pretty obvious really.

We also discussed my fear of speed. I panic when I get to fast bits, probably because I think I can't play them. Fast notes are technique that I don't have, therefore, I can't play them. It really is in my head because when she got me doing scales gradually faster and faster and faster, I was fine. Now that I know this is happening, I probably will get over it in a couple of months.

@nicki_flute
First of all, yes I have my exam result. I passed with 110. I failed my solo piece and aural. But I passed averall, that's what counts.

On friday I played a solfeggio by a composer born 1954 or so. They asked composers to write solfeggios for Frederik of Prussia, who would have been 300 this year. And I played one of them in a special concert to celebrate Frederik.

The most important thing was, that I felt no stage fright at all. I don't know, what happened, but it was a good feeling.

How did your lesson go?

@Corenfa
I learned last lesson that sometimes it is good to use longer notes to relax your hand if this note is followed by a faster passage (in my case the note was followed by a trill). Maybe it's worth to think about it.

Congratulations! Was that the Piece or am I going mad?

Your not going mad, but Piece by Ibert is on the LRSM Repertoire list and this was Grade 7 flute.
I played "The Song of the wind" by Donjon. And thanks for Congratulations!

Oh, this, silly me.

I've not played that but I do know the one - lots of flats and jumps?

What are you doing to relax post-exam?

Congratulations on passing!

What you say about longer notes and relaxing before a fast passage - absolutely, my teacher reminds me of this a lot. I like many others have the habit of stiffening my hand in anticipation of the fast stuff coming next. It is true that I do have to learn to physically prepare more for big jumps etc but that does not have to mean not relaxing.

I've nothing to report on the practising front. No breakthroughs, no stumbles, just in one of those plateau periods where there is nothing much to show. But that's OK, we can't have breakthroughs all the time. I've been doing this long enough now to know that every bit of practise I put in is adding up somehow and will eventually pay off.

Indeed not!!

Yes, in fact it is two voices to play. But the reason for failing it was that I stretched the quavers too much and that for lost the 3/4 pulse.

I am not sure yet. I will have the first lesson after exam tonight and will see what my teacher says. I would love to play third and fourth movement of the Telemann sonata, especially after I got the ornamentation for it from a professional piano player and musician. Maybe I will put some more work into the Mozart Concerto D-Major and I would love to give "The Great Train Race" a go. It seems to me like a fun piece although very challenging.



Thank you very much Corenfa!
I hope you don't mind me mention the relax thing, I didn't knew your teacher is constantly repeating this.

I came home from master class with many ideas about mindful practising. Some of it is Woodwind specialised (like practising breathing) but some things maybe general (like programming your body through practising, for being able only to think about interpretation while performing).

I have one breakthrough to report, I am know able to play up to c# fourth octave. The master class tutor mentioned one should always be able to play one note higher than needed (in my case I have to be able to play c in fourth octave for Grade 8).

Not at all It is good to hear things from different sources.



Yes - I have been trying to do that, but I don't know how successfull I've been... we shall see after my teacher's student concert in July.



I try to do that on piano too -- obviously not in terms of range, but in terms of speed. I always try to learn it 10% faster than I eventually want to play it. I guess the general principle is that we don't want to be performing at the edge of our ability but within the comfortable middle where we're most in control.

Thank you for your reply, Corenfa.

Speed is an issue for me too. Maybe it will work better, when the automation of seeing a note and do the right things with my fingers and my body grows.

All the best for the student concert in July. What are you going to play?


nicki_flute:
My relaxing program will be "The great train race" and Duet for two flutes in e-minor by Friedemann Bach. I am not totally sure it will be relaxing, but it will indeed be much fun.

Wow - The Great Train Race! I have the music but not studied it. Good luck with it.