My dd has just gone to a new school this year (southern hemisphere). Private, catholic, 800ish girls. Not chosen for it's music but for it's other strengths and did not accept a music scholarship as not happy to commit to anything they might ask for as she has lots of external music going on.

But the dept is woefuL. I know there are good musicians lurking in that school but they do nothing within school. No orchestra, there is a small wind band. Senior choir is taken by an ex pupil who isn't even paid. Middle choir rarely meet and has about 9 members. Head mistress clueless. Head of music attends events around town but appears totally useless. Her own playing is woeful. Senior concert this year had about 80 parents only there. Not advertised, scrappy program. All drama events have swish advertising. A few girls sang karaoke style. The only ones with accompanist brout their own. Mine played a solo asked at last minute although she is not a senior. One other girl played piano well but had some memory problems. It is very sad to see. By age 12 music is an option that you choose in class and have to give up art and textiles for so hardly anyone does. Dd opted out this year as already done what was on syllabus years ago.

The only big music event is a girl organized dance and pop thing with recorded music usually once a year. No Xmas concert, no big concert at all.

Would you offer to help, make suggestions or leave well alone? It is a disgrace but what would be effective intervention from me. I asked head of music to find a duo partner for dd and she hasn't. Clearly not very proactive or competent.

I think that is a very tricky one....you could suggest ideas, offer help and you could become the most unpopular parent at the school or leave well alone and spend the rest of her school life fuming! Or you might be welcomed with open arms!

If your daughter doesn't need school music and has enough outside stimulus, it might be worth suggesting ideas if you are prepared for them to be rejected - or accepted and you want to be involved in school stuff. If she would benefit from being involved in orchestras and choirs, it would be worth it in the end providing you manage to keep on good terms with H of M.

Having been the most unpopular parent, it was definitely worth the fights as all worked out well in the end and the department became very supportive but at times it was not a pleasant experience and I was always prepared to move child to another school if the stress became too much. If you are really happy with the rest of the school and wouldn't want to change then you could dip a toe in and if your ideas are not welcomed, get out very quickly!!

It is a very difficult situation. And I think that Frances has some good points for you to consider.

Personally I would find it very hard to not at least try to sort something out if it is that important.

DS has been at his school for over 7 years now and over that time I have become pretty friendly with the School Manager. I have made suggestions for improvements at school and have made it very clear that I wasn't interfering or complaining just for the sake of it, but to improve things for the children or the school. She is a lovely person, has the perfect personality for the environment that she works in and also does a great job, so I have great respect for her. With DS2 just started Nursery there and the prospect of another 8 years with them I certainly don't want to make myself unpopular.

If you do want to improve things perhaps you could offer to help the HoM to sort things out rather than asking her to do it? Given that you are new to the school you won't be aware of the dynamics of the staff, perhaps the Music department feel undervalued. So the staff may feel like it's too much work and there isn't enough support for what they do organise. It sounds like very few parents show any interest at all. Start with small achievable things like finding a duo partner for dd or offering to help with marketing the Senior Show to show you are serious. Try not to be critical but helpful and it may pay off. If not - then I'd make a hasty retreat like Frances suggests and decide if you are willing to live with things as they are. Good Luck

Yes, I think I feel that so little is done there now that I would be fighting an uphill battle. And I dont want to take the choir or accompany although I could. I want head of music to make an orchestra mostly for the other girls. Want her to lead the choir and introduce real class music. Want her to do a proper concert and fill up the fancy theatre they have with audience. Maybe some religious works? We are atheists but they are all practicing Catholics on the staff and there is a very strong emphasis on this. She doesn't even know who plays what and to what level. She needs to find out and then use the good ones to kick off a renaissance. But she is not up to it. Can't even fathom what qualifications she holds. It's not publicized.

Mine already has an afternoon off to play for one of the country's best school symphony orchs. She will be old enough for the state youth orch soon but not keen as would interfere with sailing on saturdays! Eventually she may end up at the state special interest music school where she does orchestra but it would not suit her at all academically or socially. She would get 10 class music lessons a week, ensembles, orchestra, choir, free private tuition in one instrument etc there but probably have to homeschool the rest. Dd has plenty of music now.

Fighting the current situation wouldn't be for her music education but for her street cred and social side and cos the whole situation is a disgrace. And it makes me fume that you can pay top whack fees for this city and get this situation. They were surprised when I mentioned that they were missing out on any enrollments because of their music reputation. I only said that to the head mind you. And I had no idea then that it was as dire as it is. They only offer the most basic music course there is for the A level equivalent so we will have to get out by then or do it with private tutors. Mine could pass that now and she is 12.

Please don't take this the wrong way but because you turned down the music scholarship I don't think you have the right to then try and contribute to the school. I'd be very put out if I were the Head of Music. It would be different if your DD was a scholar and contributing in the way a scholar would be. The point of scholars is to enhance the music and inspire others to take up music and if you have opted out of this route then you have effectively bought into not helping the school improve it's music. Recently I've been having a few issues and we have decided that DS will do no music, other than choir at his current school. Because of this I have to accept that any musical decisions I do not agree with are none of my business because we are now not supporting the department in other ways.

How old is head of music - any chance she might retire soon? That might be your opportunity to step in with ideas.

I don't know whether your schools have school governors of whom some are parent-governors. But that might be a way in to see what's going on, and potentially rev up the music department. (In the UK, state schools have governors who are appointed by the Local education authority, and other governors, who might be parents, and head teacher and other elected staff member.)

It seems that the music department is one that's almost being wound down, and left to languish, if a pupil is able to drop music by the age of 12. However, if your daughter is doing lots of external music, it might be better for her to do it there, and she can choose the other options in school thereby broadening her horizons. The only disadvantage would be that it might be very difficult to get academic qualifications in music - ie your equivalent of GCSE or A level here. Does opting out of music at 12 mean that she won't be able to pick it up later if she wanted?


Edit, some of my comments are now superfluous because I've taken so long to write this!!!

Yes, I think I feel that so little is done there now that I would be fighting an uphill battle. And I dont want to take the choir or accompany although I could. I want head of music to make an orchestra mostly for the other girls. Want her to lead the choir and introduce real class music. Want her to do a proper concert and fill up the fancy theatre they have with audience. Maybe some religious works? We are atheists but they are all practicing Catholics on the staff and there is a very strong emphasis on this. She doesn't even know who plays what and to what level. She needs to find out and then use the good ones to kick off a renaissance. But she is not up to it. Can't even fathom what qualifications she holds. It's not publicized.

Mine already has an afternoon off to play for one of the country's best school symphony orchs. She will be old enough for the state youth orch soon but not keen as would interfere with sailing on saturdays! Eventually she may end up at the state special interest music school where she does orchestra but it would not suit her at all academically or socially. She would get 10 class music lessons a week, ensembles, orchestra, choir, free private tuition in one instrument etc there but probably have to homeschool the rest. Dd has plenty of music now.

Fighting the current situation wouldn't be for her music education but for her street cred and social side and cos the whole situation is a disgrace. And it makes me fume that you can pay top whack fees for this city and get this situation. They were surprised when I mentioned that they were missing out on any enrollments because of their music reputation. I only said that to the head mind you. And I had no idea then that it was as dire as it is. They only offer the most basic music course there is for the A level equivalent so we will have to get out by then or do it with private tutors. Mine could pass that now and she is 12.

Hmmm. I don't actually agree with this. As a parent of a musical child, the provision of music in the school is important to me. I feel that I am able to source what my children need outside the school if necessary - HOWEVER, not everyone is in that position, and it's pretty poor when a large secondary school can't put together a decent range of ensembles. I would say that's an inadequate music department and any parent would be quite entitled to complain! I don't support the physics department in my child's school - it's not my job. It IS my job to tell them if they aren't teaching my child what they need to know!

In many ways this could be my daughters ex high school. The only difference being the groups you mention as there was no music outside of the classroom. The one steel pan group available to year 7 only was run mby one of the maths teachers.

I won't go into great detail but when the teacher didn't provide any teaching for GCSE music I decided to take action.

I expressed concerns and sought feedback or extended activities. Initially it wasn't a complaint about the member of staff just a concerned parent. School weren't interested in doing anything about it and I suspect the teacher was to some extent unmanagable. As things got more desperate I escualted the complaints as far as the governors.

There was an investigation into how the subject was being delievered. The conclusion of one particular aspect, the teacher had given feedback on daughters composition, the teacher wasn't allowed to give feedback on the composition under the exam regulations, daughter had not given the composition to the teacher so she was unable to give feedback...... In the case of the final conclusion the deputy head had handed one of the compositions to the teacher as well as a copy my daughter gave her.

Needless to say I mentally binned the report and decided banging my head on a brick wall wasn't worth the stress. It did nothing to help my childs situation she was frozen out of all musical activity and the management never celebrated any of her musical achievements. Just to be annoying I made sure they knew what they were so they never had not knowing as an excuse

FWIW the teacher is now part-time and it's almost impossible for anyone to take GCSE music. Not exactly what should have happened.



What I'm trying to say is that you can only help the school if they want to be helped.

Sorry, posted the wrong thing there somehow and the old one turned up.

They completely understood why I turned down the scholarship. That was not an issue. There is no real current contribution from any scholar as it turns out but I knew that we would never place the school concert for example (didn't know how awful it was then either) over competing for orchestra of the year, or a masterclass or an international camp. And as I was asked after it was offered to place the school above any other commitment it was then that I said that was not possible and I couldn't sign to that. She would still happily play a major role if they had anything to play in or for.

Are you really saying that if you headed a music dept you would not use the talent available and be offended by that decision? I really can't see why. No skin off their nose unless we were bailing out of their stuff which we never have. They should be grateful I turned down the money just in case a clash might arise. I was never going to use any of their staff for private lessons. They don't offer instrument 1 and we are settled with current piano teacher. Most would have taken the cash and then argued the toss later if necessary I suspect. As I would have done had I realized how unlikely it is any clash would happen owing to the fact nothing happens at all....

At 6th form the music experience is entirely different. The head is very dynamic and wants to have the best music department as an alternativce to the local music school. the number of A level students, huge amount of ensembles are all evidence ot this working. More importnantly every effort is made to find out who plays an instrument and encourage them to join ensembles even if they are not doing A level music. this is exactly what should happen. Ensembles should be open to all regardless of whether they have a music scholarshi[ or not. I doubt a serious musician would accept anything from a school that values music so poorly.

Well yes of course they appear to be winding or wound down. Except the head told me they were rebuilding the dept and she isnt the sort to lie. I think she really believes that. She didnt turn up to the concert mind you. Can you imagine? She probably had no idea it was on. I went to a school of similar size and we used to get 1500+ in for Xmas and summer concerts. Both junior and senior ones. Sadly hom is 40s and will never move on. Who would have her? And of course, the peris don't last 5mins. They can't stand it. One other woman teaches class music and she seems sweet but lacking oomph. Her choir choice songs are all current and no classical for her little group of 9 one of whom is my child.

Interesting point about the governors but I suspect it is the province of the church and entirely sewn up by them. I will make a few enquiries. Until a few years ago this was a nun headmistress. First ever non nun in post now.

As a nonmusical parent I have to say I'd be very grateful if someone with valuable skills came forward to help the music department at Daughter's school.
In class Music teaching seems to be satisfactory from what I've seen, with a fair few children taking Music GCSE and many more doing Music BTEC. There is just a general sense of apathy about extra curricular music. No orchestra, a 3 member strings ensemble, and a 'band' (2 of the same string players, 2 guitars and a drumkit.) The choir exists only when preparing for the end of year performance. There must be other musicians lurking around the school - they just don't feel inspired to join in with what's on offer and I can't say I blame them.

I asked what the band were playing in next week's production -

"Jessie J's Price Tag." (re-arranged for said violin, viola, 2 guitars and drumkit.)

She said I could just meet her outside afterwards .... or possibly at end of the street with a blanket over my head.

Dear GMc

Sounds like an issue I would want to try to address, but given the fact that you don't want any bad repercussions for your daughter I think it's more a question of how you go about it.

Certainly being the only parent trying to fight the system would be very difficult. Are there any other parents who feel the same way? It's quite a large school and if there are other children who could be in an orchestra then there are likely to be other parents who might agree with you. It's much more difficult for the school to ignore the voice of a group of parents - now all you need to do is find them!

If you have strong links with the musical organistations your daughter takes part in you could suggest inviting them for a musical day culmintating in a concert. If the HoM sees the standard she may see just how appalling her own school music is!

My only embryo plan was to ask the head if I could put a message in the electronic newsletter asking all parents whose kids learn an instrument to contact me by e mail with their details and grades so I can make a data base of what talent is on hand and start to think about getting some groups and ensembles running etc.

But then I thought that the head of music is going to look like a right drip as she is not doing it. You can't win. How else can I find parents? Dd is very eccentric and vague, not the sort to find out herself. I know a few from our vague involvement in Suzuki. But we are not exactly full on Suzuki family. Just happens that harp teacher is most senior piano Suzuki teacher in the city! Dd plays the Suzuki harp repertoire but lots of other stuff too. We do go to their graduations and concerts though.

Ideas welcomed on finding parents. I can't be the only appalled one.

Oh, she knows alright. How appalling the standards are. No one could miss the hideous dins and the fact that senior strings are 2 girls who can't play in tune plus two teachers. But I know a really good violinist who is in DDs year who does have a scholarship and she doesn't even use her. She would hate to be shown up. I suspect that if I took the specialists in from the state school with dd she would hide behind the fact that they are all specialists and that's why they are so good. I think her reticence may be all to do with fear of failing but she doesn't realize that doing nothing is seen as failing too. I invited her to Dds last orchestra concert where she had a lovely solo and there were loads of great things going on but she didnt come. Too much like mrs Careys concert I am afraid. Threatening.

This sounds remarkably similar to our situation.

Trouble is the Head of Music will know how bad it is. If the management are non-musicians they will have all the excuses in the world for not producing anything better. what they won't admit to are their own failings.




I wonder if daughters ex teacher has a twin

Honestly they are strikingly similar.

How interested is your daughter in being in a school orchestra or ensemble? School might be more responsive if it's a request coming from the pupils themselves - perhaps she could galvanise some of her musical peers into action - or if she's doesn't feel inclined to do this herself perhaps they have a student council where this could be mentioned? Certainly your daughter is the key to working out who the musical children are, but if your Suzuki contacts are also parents at the school, start with them - it only has to be "wouldn't it be nice to have a school orchestra?" in the first instance.

Dd would play if something landed on her lap but highly unlikely to go organizing anything. She enjoyed primary school orchestra even though it was easily sight read by her and low key. She managed to be the entire cello section with left hand and keep the 1st violins on track with her right as they didn't have any cellos for ages! It really improves dodgy strings to have a harp over them we discovered. Conductor loved it. Now she has had a year of massive repertoire for current orchestra that might have change though. I have to push socializing with peers as she has Aspergers and much prefers older or younger or her own company. Fits in well with musicians though. That might be another tack I could take with them - they should be getting her into music groups for social reasons. Class teacher is excellent. Might see if he can think of how to do it.

He might be helpful in giving background to how this music teacher came to be in post in the first place - clearly you'd have to have a diplomatic conversation, and it might take a little while to ease round to the topic.

And are you likely to have mothers get-togethers among your class, or year group? That could be a way in to finding out other musical children in your daughter's year. We used to have coffee mornings, or evening suppers when the children first started the new school.

Although they had a Xmas in July party during the holidays for all in the year we were away harping for it. Most of the year have been at the school for all their school life so they probably have their own tight groups for both children and parents set up from way back which good old dd is highly unlikely to fathom or be part of.

I think that a principal drives school excellence so really the buck stops there although one would expect a head of dept to have some ability. Hom seems to me to be a very nicely coiffured waste of space who hopes to do nothing but keep being paid and having good holidays until retirement. And that is a long way off. Unions are very strong here too in education. Sacking is unheard of unless you have an affair with a pupil. And without the chief cracking the whip nothing will change or motivate hom to shape up or ship out. Heaven knows who appointed her originally but she predates the incumbent headmistress and our lovely class teacher both of whom are fairly new.