After some thought and more battles fought with flute, to be frank I've given it up as a bad job now. I have decided I fancy giving the sax a go but don't have a clue what to look for!

Would like to play in a local windband but not with clarinet as to be frank I want a challenge.

Don't have a lot of money to spend, will certainly be a used instrument but don't mind buying something needing a bit of work.

What sax and mouthpiece would you recommend and sheet music / tutorial books?

I suspect you'll progress pretty quickly, P*P : having said that, it isn't a metal clarinet - the embouchure is looser and rounder than on clarinet. Probably wise to have a sax player check on this at first.

Good makes of sax : loads, but they include Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Cannonball and Keilwerth. Trevor James and Jupiter do good bottom end price-wise instruments.

Many sax mouthpiece names you'll recognise from your clarinetting, but there are a few others too, Jody Jazz are one of these.

First thing I'd think of is which sax to play as your major study, though (alto, tenor, bari, whatever )

Fortunately, I know quite a few sax players Also would like to start with an Alto, has a lovely range and is not too big and heavy!

Not really too sure on what style I would like to play, maybe some Jazz??? I do know NOTHING about Jazz though so it'd be something really different for me. Certainly not going down the Jazz route on piano or clarinet at any point so would be nice to explore a different genre.

A question : do you want to play 'jazzy' pieces, or do you want to learn about the mechanics of jazz, improvising 'n' all?

If you're going to go down the "sax that needs some work doing to it route" then go for one of the names such as Yamaha, Yanagisawa etc. That means it should be fairly decent once you've done the work. imo there's no point in going for something ultra-cheap and secondhand - saxes have improved so much and have become so much cheaper in recent years that you could get something new for ?200 that will be better than a 10 years old lesser known student instrument on ebay. I've got a 1980s student tenor at home that is more or less worthless (I paid ?500 for it 15 years ago, it was secondhand then), because even the not very good cheap Chinese saxes are better than this one.

Especially for someone who's as ace as you are at instrument repair P*P, this is excellent advice

Honestly, not sure at this moment in time!! Just fancy giving sax a go and seeing how I get on at first.

Was thinking of starting off buying a tutor book e.g. saxophone basics and stuff from grades 1 -5 lists, scale book etc. Can't get my head round scales to the length of a 12th!



I was looking down the lines of jupiter, yamaha 2x, 2xx series or trevor james. Also have played an Elkhart before - well "played" more had a go on could get all the low notes though Not sure they are great saxes or not though??

Yanagisawa's are probably a bit expensive at the moment!

Elkharts I find are OK, but a bit brittle : I think you might find the Elkhart would be reclining quite a bit at the Pixie*Porsche repair facility...

hahaha thank you for the advice!

It tends to be if they make good student flutes they make good student saxes and the clarinet seems to be on it's own!

Do you play sax, Barry?

I've only been learning sax for a year (tenor) but I've played on three saxes during this time. The first was a borrowed Yamaha student model YTS 25, I then hired a John Packer for a few months before buying a Yamaha 61, which was the predecessor to the 62.

I believe that Yamaha stopped producing these in 1978, so it's probably nearly as old as I am (!) but in its day it was the top of the range professional model. It was professionally owned and definitely has a 'vintage' look about it (it's not very pretty!!) but there is absolutely no comparison between this and the previous student models which I've played. I still have a long way to go before I achieve the sound which I'm striving for but on this I think I may eventually get there!

For me, the tenor is for jazz and I have no interest in playing classical music on it. I've worked form the Bob Mintzer Easy Jazz Etudes book (as recommended by TSax) and would also recommend the Randy Hunter Complete Jazz Styles books - both have backing CDs too. Sax is great and very addictive - my biggest problem is finding the time to practise two instruments effectively but I enjoy trying!

EDIT - Just to add that I bought a tutor book initially (A New Tune a Day) but I didn't use it for long - I think I put it on Ebay after about three weeks! You will probably find a fingering chart is all you need to get you started. You might also find chromatic scales and arps more useful if you want to focus on jazz.

I've recently taken up alto sax. From what I've read on various forums etc. the quality of modern Chinese / Taiwanese instruments is very good (once you get away from the really cheap 'saxophone shaped objects' that lurk on various sites etc etc).

Other makes which seem to get good reviews are Hanson and Bauhaus Walstein.

From the comments you are evidently a dab hand at tech work and there is of course a Haynes manual for saxes.... and the author who is a sax tech has a web site with a lot of info about different brands, old vs new etc

There are some outlets that specialise in second hand instruments

I'm unsure about policy of putting links to web sites here - send me a PM if you wish and I'll pass on some links.

Mouthpieces, ligatures and reeds - endless choice! Reliable inexpensive mpc include Yamaha and Grafton. I have a Selmer S80 C* with an LG leather/fabric single screw lig

21 years and counting, P*P! I find it's a good, fun instrument to play. I know I lapse into clarinet technique on saxophone quite a bit, but I am aware of that at least! It's well worth doing the Royal Northern's sax day sometime, and there's also a sax day each year in Nottingham that saxgirl eulogises over : I think that's usually in late March/early April.



To be safe, avoid any links that involve retailing of instruments, otherwise, pretty much anything goes.

Thank you all so far

I have seen a Yamaha 23 and a Jupiter 767, which would you recommend?

The Yamaha, from those two. But do have a play of it. Gut feeling says you'll outgrow the Jupiter fairly quickly.

It's a confusing one as the Jupiter seems to be marketed as an intermediate instrument but I know yamahas are really good instruments! Arrgh, I think I'm going to go and have a nose round a local music shop and have a try of a few!

Very good plan, P*P. You'll work out quality with your considerable instrumental knowledge

There's a dealer in Bradford that specialises in older instruments (PM for details). Yamahas of all ages seem to have a good rep for robustness and sound quality.

I'm betwitx and betwain as I'm thinking of upgrading and the challenge is older 'classic' (and depending on how old, quirkier) or new/er and reliable

Hopefully!! Theres so many to choose from, seems so much more out there than for flute or clarinet! Well, as far as beginner instruments go, anyway. I love all the different colours you can get from a rose gold colour to silver plate and everything inbetween

Currently looking at grade 1-5 repertoire! Thinking of getting a decent fingering chart and a scale book as well as lots of repertoire books - time pieces, james rae studies etc.



PM sent

I'd say for the beginner market, the sax falls somewhere between flute and clarinet for choice : more choice than for the clarinet, but less than for the flute. Colours are far less of a quality issue for the sax too : more often than not, different coloured flutes and (especially) clarinets are of dubious quality (although there are exceptions of course!).

Best fingering chart for sax is probably the online one on the wfg.woodwind site, in my opinion

I'd second Woodwind Exchange as a good place to try saxes. Take a sandwich you may be there a while

I know you've had advice from people who know a lot more than I do. We are thinking of upgrading daughters tenor, her ideal instrument reference 54 may be out of the question if it has to be done quickly. The Yanagisawa 901 are well worth a look at and may well be our choice for an upgrade.

Going to localish shop tomorrow to try a few saxes including altos and tenors ... see which I actually prefer playing Excited, much?

We'll be agog waiting for your reports of how you got on and how many saxes you've bought

LOL should have made it clear so I can choose between the two I would like to know for sure which I want to start on. I originally said alto but have been listening to some tenor music today and now can't decide!

Tenor may well be too big for me.

How big are you? I'm quite petite (5ft 3 and 7st 10) and manage to play a tenor without difficulty! Having said that, soprano is still my favourite

I'm the same build as Apassionata and have no problems with the size/weight of the instrument but I do find the very bottom notes a bit of a stretch for my small hands at times. Enjoy trying the saxes - look forward to hearing what you end up with!

It was more hand stretch I was thinking of! I'm 5'2" can stretch an octave with each hand on the piano but find getting any notes as well inbetween difficult.

I struggle with stretching an octave but find larger saxophones and bass clari to not be an issue.

When I was younger I could get none of the lows notes out of a bass clarinet or even an alto sax - I did play Eb clarinet often and put it down to embourchure.

Now I can get low notes reliably out of an alto sax Tried quite recently which got me thinking .... and has ended up in saxophone shopping

An octave is my limit on the piano too.



I have no experience of bass clarinet or alto but I did struggle to get the low notes on tenor to begin with. The embouchure is much looser and I had to really work on relaxing my jaw to get them. I also play on a much more open mouthpiece than is usual for a beginner. I struggled with the Yamaha 4c, which is a widely recommended beginner mouthpiece but has quite a narrow opening. I ended up with a David Hite Premiere, which is a 0.90 and made things much easier for me.

Im another one in the 'barely reach an octave on the piano' camp. I've found that saxophones vary in their key positions quite a bit. I can barely reach the low Bb on my cheap Buffet sax but it's fine on my Yanigasawa (altos that is) I've only attempted tenor once on an ancient student Yamaha (1980s vintage) and found that keywork a stretch and heavy, newer models are a lot lighter. Whereas my friends cannonball Bari was a dream to play (she was lucky to get it back!)

I don't think your size will be an issue in choosing alto or tenor, modern keywork means stretch isn't usually a problem. Tenor will feel heavy at first though, but you'll get used to it and there are various harness options if it becomes a problem.

My advice on which to choose is based firstly on which you most like the sound of - for me it had to be tenor, and secondly what style of music do you want to play? If its classical then alto is the better option. If its jazz then either will work.

In terms of how much competition there will be for e.g. places in bands my experience has been
- in classical (and I'm including concert bands in here) there are more alto players
- for jazz at the less experienced level there are more alto players, at the more experienced level there are probably more tenors.

Another thing to consider, especially if you're on a tight budget is that altos are cheaper and there are more secondhand altos around.

Practically, for keeping your options open, alto is probably the best option. But if you fall in love with tenor then go for it!

I've decided to go for an Alto to start with

Tried lots of saxes today those being -
Elkhart deluxe,
Trevor James Classic
TJ Horn Revolution
Jupiter 700 series and
Yamaha 275

I must admit I did think the Yamaha was the best put together, surprise, surprise but it is ?800. The TJs were the prettiest ...

As far as sound / playability went I actually enjoyed them all! The Jupiter won for playability by a tiny, tiny amount.

I was told the Jupiter and TJ Horn Revolution would get me up to about Grade 6, the others up to about Grade 5, is this correct?

Also tried a tenor which I think I'll have another go on after I've played alto for a while.

Still can't decide between learning Jazz and classical, I'm veering towards the Jazz but know NOTHING about it so thats all that is putting me off, perhaps thats a silly reason!

I'm not really a fan of saying that an instrument will get you up to Grade X. If it's in decent condition and you can play it in tune then it will get you up to whatever grade you want to go to.

The difference (imo) that "better" saxophones make is more to do with the flexibility and nuances of sound you can get from them - it turns into a player / horn relationship. I don't think that the point that happens is at all grade specific. I've met some sax players with grade 8 who don't have a very developed sound. Equally there are some less advanced players who've put the ground work in and could make the most out of a better sax.



Do you like listening to jazz (proper jazz not "jazz style")? If you don't then there's probably no point in starting to learn jazz because you have to do a lot of listening to get to any kind of decent standard.

TSax - thankyou so much for the advice You seem really knowledgeable about the sax

I absolutely love listening to Jazz. Have been to a few Jazz gigs. But I do not have a clue where to start with it ... and can't really have regular i.e. weekly sax lessons (certainly not with a Jazz specialist)! Basically I like Jazz but am scared of it

Anything about the sax with the username TSax associated with it is going to be good advice. She plays a very mean tenor sax too...

But I digress. Of the five saxes you played, there isn't a lot to choose between them in my opinion, though Elkharts tend to be unreliable. So go for your favourite

This may or may not be a factor for you to consider but the Yamaha and the Jupiter will hold their value best, should you decide to upgrade at some point in the future - I get the impression that you are likely to progress quite quickly!

That said, I agree very much with what TSax said in terms of the instrument not limiting you to a certain grade standard - a professional playing a student instrument is still going to sound like a professional and will get much more out of the instrument than a student might, if you see what I mean!

Best of luck with whichever instrument you choose and if you want to learn jazz, go for it!

From what I've read, newer saxes (e.g. Yani, Yamaha etc) have better ergonomics than 'classic' older instruments from the 30s/40s/50s/60s. So testing them out is important, if you go for vintage.

If you love jazz then you must try learning to play it! You can't love jazz, play sax and NOT try!

I'm not at all sure how you'd go about starting to learn on your own and without a teacher. Jazz really isn't a solo pursuit - are there any workshops, community ed classes etc anywhere near you? I know there are several within easy reach of me, but that's London.

Of course the first thing you've got to do is become reasonably competent at playing the sax, and the basics are the same whether it's jazz or classical. Be consciously aware all the time that it's a sax, not a clarinet (my clarinet playing is hopeless these days because I can't make the distinction). Your embouchure is looser and more of an "O" shape. Try and keep your jaw dropped. Listen very carefully to your tuning. The tendency for clarinettists is to play sharp, and increasingly sharp the higher up the instrument you go because you tighten the embouchure. You might also find you have problems hitting the low notes - you need to relax and drop your jaw. Long notes are crucial for developing a decent sound and you need a lot more (in terms of volume) of air than for a clarinet. If you don't use enough air you'll end up tightening your embouchure to support the note instead of relying on the airstream and you're back to tuning problems. You might feel that you're playing too loud. Don't worry about it. Loud is good in the early days, it means you're putting enough air through, you can worry about playing quiet later on.

Things to practice that will help to develop the skills you need for jazz are scales and arpeggios, and try working out simple (or not so simple depending on how good at it you are already) tunes by ear. Once you've figured one out transpose it into another key, and another. Learn a short phrase of a couple of bars and transpose it into 12 keys (in your head, don't write it down). These should all help you when you find the right place to start playing jazz.

Thankyou so much for the tips I'd love to join a big band one day so we'll see how it goes

More importantly I appear to have bought a sax

Woohoo! Which one did you go for?

I have a big band gig tonight. It's in quite a famous venue - The 100 Club on Oxford St; and I'm really looking forward to being able to say I've played there! Nervous though, I'm playing right at the limit of my ability in this band and I have a solo in the first number

Wow! Best of luck, TSax.

Ooooh - enjoy! Hope it goes really well for you - would love to know what you're soloing on, if you don't mind sharing!

Wow - that was quick!

I am aware that you are at quite an advanced level on clarinet, whilst I fall firmly into the 'adult learner' category (ie nowhere near diploma level!!), so I hope that I'm not passing on things which may be blindingly obvious to you but I was going to add to TSax's suggestion of working on loosening your embouchure by suggesting that as well as dropping your jaw, you might also find it helpful to think of flattening your chin - something which seemed to work for me!

I also did some work initially using just the mouthpiece and crook and changing the pitch by loosening my embouchure.

I would also add that I do find it difficult to switch immediately from one instrument to the other. I have limited practise time, so only get one session of about an hour each day, so I tend to alternate instruments but I play both at band on a Saturday morning with just a short break between.

Enjoy your sax - let us know which one you went for in the end!

Thank you all Good luck TSax

I have gone for a Jupiter 700 Series, will say more about it when it arrives *Excited now*

Welcome ot the GAS club

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It went well thanks! Solo was on Splanky - not difficult, it's basically a blues but in concert Db which isn't a key I'm used to playing in.

I think you have chosen well

Wow - impressed! Isn't that quite fast? Would have liked to have heard it - well done!

Thank you all

TSax so glad your solo went well

Barry - I refurbish lots of Jupiter flutes / clarinets and they are good instruments, I believe the saxes are what they seem to do really well on, though. So that did influence my decision. And the Jupiter *just* and only just had the edge for playablity for me.

When it turns up and I've had a couple of months worth of playing expect the usual mouthpiece thread

I think I'm going to give jazz a go - as well as learning some of the classical stuff. I'm fairly good at written theory so some of it is applying that in my head from what I can see? Also, I may beable to join a group or get some lessons from a saxosophonist (thats how you say it not sure you spell it this way?) with a Jazz degree.

Also reeds - should I start with same strength as what I play for clarinet?

Definitely give jazz a go - you'll love it!

You have a distinct advantage if your theory is strong and your piano playing may help too. I play piano at a very basic level (ie only just!) but I did some work on jazz chords with my teacher and I know enough to know what 7s and 9s are, can play a blues scale etc - quite different to classical piano but all very useful. My teacher used to call it number crunching!

I was surprised to find that initially I needed a stronger reed on my tenor than I did on my clarinet but I currently play an Alexander Classique 3 on clari and an Alexander NY 2.5 on my tenor. I would probably be ok on a 3 now but having played on my plastic mouthpiece for twelve months, I would like to try out some ebonite ones now. I won't be buying reads again until I know whether I'm going for something more open - if I do, I'll probably need softer reeds, so the whole reed/mouthpiece trial will begin all over again!