I'm currently without a tutor and am hoping to go back to my old teacher in the new year. if she'll have me back that is. i'm oot really interested in a New teacher, she was a great teacher very nice lady defo knew what she was talkin about, always made perfect sense and i really felt comfortable with her that's why i want to go back to her, but,sometimes i couldnt help feeling that she saw me, an adult learner just learning for my own amusement, as less important than her younger students workin towards a possible long career in music.

im just a bit nervous about things. i found Ht really discouraging and i don't wanna face that when i feel like i need a lot of support to get me back on track cos i'm really struggling after illness

these fears are not new. i had them before i stopped. i admit they where a contributory factor in encouraging me to take a break in the first place

anyway to get to the point does anyone else feel similar, or theyre not taken seriously or as important as an adult learner

sorry

As a teacher I don't think of any of my pupils as more or less important than each other.

I'm taken seriously by both my teachers.
They both know that I want to play as well as I'm able and do things 'properly' and teach accordingly.

I don't think these fears are unreasonable at all.

It's not alwyas a question of thinking that adults are less worthwhile either, sometimes it's just that some teachers prefer teaching children.

I'm saying this as a teacher - I do not take adult pupils now because I have realised that I do not do a very good job teaching them - it's not that I think they are less important, and I've certainly no youngsters who are considering a career in music, but just that there's something that doesn't quite click.

On the other hand, there's a lady up the road who teaches adults pupils very well (and children quite poorly, IMHO) so I simply send all the adult enquiries up to her.

If you're looking for a new teacher, ask them how many adult pupils they have, how long each student has been coming for, what level they are. You'll quickly get an idea of whether the adults students are an important part of their clientele. Chose someone who obviously enjoys teaching adults, has a lot of adults pupils, of all levels, and pupils who are both new and long-standing.

Good luck . . .

My teacher prefers teaching older teengers and adults - because a conversation can be had about music, the composer, seemingly obscure irrelevant tangents, and so on, that you are less likely to get the maturity for (or interest in) in a younger child. So I definitely don't feel less important than the younger students, not even the ones who are knock-your-socks of brilliant and far beyond anything I'll ever manage

Just me then

suppose then i just have to find a way to stop wallowing in my own misery and just get on with it

If anything I'm treated with more respect ha. My reacher and I get along really well, though I suppose it's because he taught me as a young teenager and we just started again 6 years on.

Ultimately if you feel a teacher has the wrong impression about your goals, then you need to talk about it. The first lesson I had coming back, we had a chat about where I wanted to go, and because of that our lessons go very smoothly and we don't feel any sort of clash of interests.

Also helps that my parents no longer have any input on my musical education.

It sounds to me a though it's not you, it's the teacher. If you had those feeling about her previously I would think very hard before going back. For what it's worth my two oboe teachers have been young (much younger that me) but never made me feel at all odd about being an adult learner. They have both been hugely supportive and enthusiastic - oh and a bit pushy. I would have thought a good teacher would simply be interested in enabling a student to get the best out of themselves, whatever their ultimate aim.

Both my teachers are younger than me. My clarinet teacher is younger than my children and my piano teacher not much older than they are. There is no doubt as to who is in charge in either case. They are everything that pushpull lists.
Exactly how pushy varies as it very much two way traffic so on the occasions when things are not going so well they both have the wisdom to loosen up a bit. A good teacher is not going to push more than it seems you can handle.
Can you put your finger on what gave you the feeling that your intentions weren't being taken seriously?

I did have that feeling with one teacher I went to. She couldn't take on board the fact that piano wasn't my first interest, nor that as a reasonably intelligent adult with other musical experience I had a fair idea of what I wanted to achieve - which wasn't a systematic route-march through a deadly dull tutor book.

I didn't last with her very long.

My teacher had never taught adults before I turned up wanting lessons. He was open about this but said he was willing to give it a try. Things were further complicated by the fact that a) he was used to total beginners who had no musical experience and I had already had quite a lot but on other instruments b) French is not my mother tongue and I had no musical vocabulary in French.

There was a bit of trial and error when I first started, but I never felt that this was because he wasn't taking me seriously rather that it was because he needed time to get to know me. Occasionally he has said "That's not bad for an adult", which I always find a bit peculiar. But when I eventually asked him about it he said that what he really meant was that he was impressed by my dedication and the amount of practice I do since adult life requires you to do so many other things.

He went out of his way to keep me as a pupil last year (in conditions which were favorable to me) when the music school wanted to reduce the number of adults learning last year.

He is very good with young children and beginners but over the years he has told me that he enjoys teaching me because I know why I am there (I haven't been enrolled by a parent); I practise what he has told me to practise (and practise it how he has told me to practise it) and as Mazie said about her teacher he can have an intelligent musical conversation with me.

He has since gained two other adult pupils. I know one of them a little bit and she complained that I had given him unreasonable expectations about the amount of practice an adult can put in!

You're not wallowing! I would say if you suspect you are not being treated seriously find another teacher. I know there are some about who are as you describe, but there are plenty who are not. Find yourself one of the 'good guys'.

My piano teacher is absolutely wonderful but I do have specific piano career goals ... so, perhaps thats a bit different to anyone adult or children learning "just for their own pleasure".

That depends on whether it's your pleasure just to play a few tunes and not really want to bother with all that technical 'doing it properly' stuff or as my piano teacher asked at my first lesson with her if you want to learn 'properly'.
'Do you want to learn for fun or to do things properly?' is not really the right question but it sort of gives a starting point for what somebody wants from lessons. I know that I wouldn't find it much fun not to have my playing taken apart when necessary.

As a teacher I still try to sneak in as much good technique and theory as I can get away with. It somehow doesn't quite feel like 'proper' teaching otherwise.

Unfortunately, it is true in some cases. A friend of mine took recorder lessons in his 50s but had to leave after few months due to his teacher's attitude.

On the other hand, my teacher loves teaching, especially to the adults! He enjoys teaching to adults and has said many times that adults work harder than children as they are taking lessons because they want to and not because their parents want to!

I guess it is a teacher in your case....but he/she may not be doing it intentionally. May be you need to communicate your aims and expectations more clearly?

My violin teacher treats me the same as children (he teaches teens) but puts me under more pressure because we don't have as much time to accomplish the same stuff...

And with singing I lead, but he puts me under plenty of pressure. He's always loved teaching me as he can have those musical conversations that are so difficult with younger ones - and I do my practice!!

I spent alot of time seeking out a teacher who would be the right one for me as an adult beginner. I wanted to learn a new instrument, I didn't mind which instrument, what mattered to me most was that I enjoyed the experience as it was to be my new hobby. I ended up with a newly retired classics teacher who is also a very fine viola player, who also played violin and happened to have a spare violin kicking about. I'm his only pupil! So his teaching skills are excellent and he's passionate about his own playing. He enjoys the lessons as much as I do, he often says so and sometimes remarks he feels guilty taking money from me. Every lesson, I turn up with questions and we work through as many as we can, it always starts with my agenda but he works things in that he wants to draw to my attention too. I didn't fancy the idea of having a teacher who spent all day with kids and then felt frazzled and tired coming into my lesson, or someone who wanted to methodically plough through a method book.
Shop around and meet as many players as you can to ask for ideas and contacts, you never know what might turn up for you.

I know exactly what you mean. I have felt less important than the younger pupils with some of my teachers. I've generally noticed this by the teacher expecting me to lead the teaching, coming with new pieces to learn, a desire to do scales etc. Several teachers haven't seemed to prepare for my lessons, but just helped me to make whatever pieces I'm working on to get better.

However, although I'm an adult, I am still the student, and thus don't know what I need to learn in order to overcome my technical difficulties. Indeed, I don't usually notice my technical difficulties. I want to be taught, rather than just tutored in what I brought along.

I've felt this more in my voice lessons than in my piano lessons. (And never felt it in solfege.)

But do you know that your teachers teach their younger pupils differently? I would approach teaching pupils of any age in different ways according to how much previous knowledge they had, and what their goals were.

I felt a bit like that with my last teacher, he taught mainly children and my lesson always seemed like an add on at the end of the day. Quite often he would cut my lesson short by five minutes for no reason other than wanting to get home! and I only had half an hours lesson to start with. My new teacher is great, the complete opposite of the other. More often than not we run over time (slightly), usually talking He's never in hurry to get rid of me.

It's horses for courses - if you are not happy with a teacher or teaching approach, don't go there. Quite simple.

From a teacher's perspective: I actually love working with adults, and they are the majority of my students. So we DO exist

I don't think this is just an adult thing. I feel this way about most of my daughter's teachers, past and present - but perhaps I just don't understand all the planning that goes on behind the scenes, or they are clever at concealing it..

What evidence would you look for in order to decide whether a lesson was planned or not?

I'd still tend to see this as the teacher quite rightly not wishing to get in the way of an adult pupil's autonomy - yes, you are the pupil, but you also know something about how you learn, and need to communicate that. Music is not a one size fits all discipline, adult learners come to it both with preconceptions and a degree of physical and intellectual baggage which kids haven't yet acquired, and that does have a major affect on how one learns.

The other thing which strikes me is that there are in fact good reasons for using music as tuition material - what you achieve in developing a piece will have knock-on effects on whatever else you tackle. If that's not though the way you wish to progress, then communicate that. Teaching and learning is always, if done well, a matter of two-way communication, and especially so when learning as an adult: it's not a passive process. If you feel your needs are best served doing technical exercises, then ask for them: I would point out though that they're not the only way to learn well. I've certainly found my technique improving massively over the years, and I do the barest mininum of scale-slogging and suchlike, learning it all by means of the music I play.

To answer the original question: No, not at all. My teacher is actually very happy to have me as a student because I play at a rather higher standard than the great majority of her young students.

What DOES annoy me is books on piano technique, repertoire, performance and teaching that constantly refer to "the young student", "the young beginner", "the young performer" and so on, and make you feel that you have no right to be learning an instrument or beginning to perform at a more mature age. What makes it annoying is that the word "young" is usually entirely gratuitious, and irrelevant to the content of the writing. That is to say it is not specific to young people, but applies equally to a beginner/student/performer of any age.

If any guilty author is reading this ... JUST STOP IT ... (Please)

It's better than "the old student" or "the old beginner"

Not really "evidence" at all, but just something that suggests the teaching is in some way personalised and tailored to my daughter's needs/shortcomoings. Eg a statement that the teacher thinks she needs to work on such and such this term and that therefore they intend to do whatever, and will I please buy whatever music the teacher thinks will enable them to do this. I am probably being very unfair to her singing and piano teachers as they are at school and have limited opportunity to convey information about any grand plans (and singing teacher is new this term anyway). However, her recorder teacher seems to operate by looking in daughter's bag each week, picking something she thinks is "interesting", getting daughter to play it for half an hour, then doing the same the following week, with a different piece. Clarinet teacher breezes in (to our house) looks at large heap of music, looks at notes in notebook from previous week, asks daughter when she intends to take grade 8 (though this has been discussed many times before..), discusses with daughter what they'll do and then off they go. It may just be him.. but there's not much impression of forethought.

Of course, I should discuss with them, but am not good at doing this sort of thing without seeming confrontational!!

Tactlessly.....

Phew! That's a relief!!!

I don't have a problem with that - I've led a couple of Bible studies for 'young Christians' - some of whom have been older than me. They are young in Christ - I am young in Music.

I don't think my teacher treats me as less important but she has complained about me seeing myself as less important.

My teacher spent most of her long teaching career at local grammar schools. Now she's semi-retired and only teaches adults two days a week at her home. She said she doesn't miss teaching in schools at all. Whether that's because of the beauracracy or the children I'm unsure.

I know for a fact that the other students my teacher has are much more experienced musicians than me. However, she never treats me as less important. To the contrary, I feel as if she likes the challenge of teaching a complete beginner like myself; more so because I'm an adult who is keen to learn, who practises as hard as time will allow and who is there of my own volition, as opposed to a child where a certain level of parental pressure may be involved. Not to say that all children are reluctant, but I know I was about my piano lessons as a child, when I'd rather go out and play than practise!

For me, every pupil is valued, and every pupil has something to contribute to our community of learners. The fact that some are young, and some are not so young is to my mind completely irrelevant. Just because adults often have different aspirations and require a different approach, it shouldn't in any way mean that they are treated as any less important than the younger ones.

Over the years, around 60% of pupils have been adults, and while I'll be the first to admit that some drive me round the bend, overall, I thoroughly enjoy teaching them. The fact that as a community, we've always had a wide variety of ages, has, for everyone, enhanced and enriched the learning experience.

i think that may be the crux of the matter.

i feel i need to clear up that i don't believe my teacher was lackin or at fault and i foot believe anything i felt is something she meant deliberately. i actually think She was/is a great teacher and a lovely lady i could have been friend's with. that's why i want to go back to her. i really enjoyed my lessons with her. although there were a few cancelled lessons and things that lead me down this road i think i'm just Havin a crisis of worth stemming from my illness, and the usual external influences that its all a waste of time for an adult

i'm glad not many,if any, feel like they're treated differently.

i think if/when i go back the main thing i need to do is just talk to her

many thanks x

I completely get what you mean - have had people asking me, why do you bother with lessons? are you going to teach? (No) Are you going to take exams? (No) Then what's the point? (I just like doing it, isn't that enough)

If I chose to spend the time and money on, say, a personal trainer, nobody would even bother to ask because they'd just assume I wanted to lose weight or look better, etc.

all the best with your lessons and hope you recover fully soon if you have not already.

Best of luck Clari-Netty!!! Nice to see you posting again and I hope you are well on the road to recovery.

It sounds as though there's a lot about your teacher you like and I'd agree with other responses that it's worth talking to her. You could ask her outright what difference it makes to her to teach an adult rather than a child and you can judge by her response whether you are likely to get the continuing support you want.

Good luck with getting back to the clarinet. Be kind and patient with yourself as I expect it will take a while to get back in shape.

(By the way, I'm off the oboe - also for health reasons. Hoping to be back in 2-4 weeks ... though by then it will be "summer" holidays )

66% of my pupils are adults, with half of them being over 50...... My website attracts adults on purpose as they are an untapped market! They are all amazingly hard working and I have conversations with them which does not involve school stories and what they did at brownies.....

Adults are easier to teach, you can ask them what/why/how they like to learn and then I just crack on and give advice and help every week

most of them take exams, LCM step and ABRSM graded but only if they are enthusiastic about exams

This time I had 9 taking exams, 8 being adults..... no tantrums, no stroups, just adults cracking on

My teacher says I'm her celebrity pupil ( and I have to agree with her.. )

For me its all about personal mindset, I play and get some lovely invitations to go and play, so being me I go and have a lovely time..I'm far from technically brilliant, in fact I can be technically weak but cover it with performance

We chat, we play we share opinons freely and we discuss how to milk the last drop out of every peice of music..

Its all showbiz when all is said and done..and I have a lovely teacher who I adore.