Whenever I record myself or myself plus pupil and play it back I find my perfectly graduated and expressive playing has been turned into someone I don't recognise thumping around.

Part of this will be that I (?we) perhaps hear ourselves more perfect than we really are - but are microphone placement (4 ft from piano), microphone quality (zoom h2) or room size factors ?

Does the microphone capture the onset on the note somehow differently to how we hear it or is it that our ears compensate for the decay of piano sound after the string has been struck in a way that the microphone doesn't ?

More questions than answers but someone out there might know......

I've just acquired a zoom H2 for recording, and have found that my recorded piano playing is a painful experience to listen to, not least because the recorder picks up (completely accurately) the squeaking and thumping of the damper pedal which my brain manages to tune out when listening to the 'live' performance. So I think there is an extent to which our ears filter out the sounds which aren't compatible with our mental concept of how the piece ought to sound; but for some reason, this filter system doesn't work when listening to the playback.

One query is what quality of hi-fi you are using to play back the recording. We've found through trial and error that you need to play back through a good quality amp and speakers to get a faithful reproduction of the acoustic resonances of the piano. For some reason, my sax sound 'suffers' less from this problem, and sounds reasonably faithful even on a poorer quality system for playback.

There is an answer, if you are using a digital piano.

I have a Yamaha CLP970, and use a Zoom H4 for recording. The trick is to play your piece into the piano's memory first. Then set up your recorder (4' is about where I place it), play back and record. This way you get all the music but without any pedal or clattery key sounds. I have made some very satisfactory CDs this way, including a 70 minute one for my grandaughter's wedding.

I have also done some recording in a concert hall with the Zoom4, and a Bechstein grand. For this the recorder was probably 6' away. One can hear some pedal noises on these recordings, but nothing too objectionable.

Hope the above helps. Most of it of course, only if you have a digital piano.

Reading this thread with interest as I'm thinking of getting this sort of recording device.
Since being unable to use my minidisc which wasn't bad I've tried recording onto the laptop.
Even with the microphone I was using with the mini disc the result is not good.
I'm finding that everything sounds rather clunky due to the exaggerated effect of the decay.

Not sure what you mean by "bumpy", but it could be that the volume of the piano is overwhelming your recording apparatus. This tends to result in the playback sounding odd. The best I can describe it is that when you hit the notes, it's loud, then immediately goes soft or muffled. With piano playing so many overlapping notes, it can make the whole recording sound like some lunatic has a volume control on every piano key and is twiddling like as you play.

Does it sound anything like that?

If so, you need to reduce the sound levels as you are recording. What is your microphone connected to? A computer or tape recorder? Do you have levels settings you can use? Also, I think four feet is very, very close miking for piano in anything other than a professional studio with professional kit. Also, what kind of piano is it? If its an upright against a wall, reflections from the wall could be causing the recording device to pick up short period reflections that will play merry-heck with the recording quality, but which your brain will filter. In this case, opening the lid and miking from further away may help. If it is a grand, make sure the lid is shut for anything less than professional quality recording.

Caveat: I'm not a pianist, but I used to work in theatrical stage management, and have miked up quite few instruments in my time!

I think we are talking about the Zoom H2 digital recorder and similar.
That's the sort of thing I'm interested in finding out about.

Thanks - it does sound rather as you described it. We ended up playing very quietly and timidly to minimise the bumpiness of the legato.
It is an upright 4 inches from a wall in a domestic-sized room.
The Zoom H2 has microphone gain settings of high, medium and low and a numeric recording-level which you can adjust up or down. It can also be set with a 90 or 120 degree 'field of view'.
Maybe I need to experiment again in a structured way with these options - I did when I first got it but I don't remember it my conclusions. I could even try putting the mike in another room!

Ok, try low gain, with the level turned down, and with a narrow 'field of view' for starters. Try turning it right down, and see if you can get it so that the recording is too quiet, and then turn the level up in very small increments until the recording is as loud as you need. Going any louder than necessary will generally introduce more distortion, and you want to record at the lowest level you can that gives a good recording.

Edit:

Cool I just checked out the zoom H2. When I was last involved in music, digital hadn't been invented, so that device is a bit of a revelation!

The blurb states "AGC, compression and limiter function", so I'm quite confident, as the effect I was trying to describe was AGC and compression! (Automatic Gain Control).

Try moving the device further away, and do as above, and with some fiddling, you should be able to get excellent results.

Might even have to get on of those things for myself!

I came across this article a while ago. It could be useful

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/site/04f...882b/index.html

Here is the device you need ....

http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/Special/pr-1.html

Contact Kawai (Milton Keynes) and ask for Joe Carroll. However, they may only be available through the trade. The microphones also have velcro straps so that they can be suspended in mid-air, to reduce any unwanted noises.
Hope that helps

OH and teacher use an Olympus LS-20m to record their duets. It does video as well as audio at above CD quality. Fine piece of kit (IMHO) for the price.

I use a Sony PCM-D50 for recording a wide variety of sources from birdsong in the garden, steam train whistles etc, church organs and fairly close miking of my daughter's pedal harp. The PCM-D50 doesn't have any form of AGC, but it does have a 20dB overload capability running in the background, and a 5 second record buffer which can be very useful when capturing bird song. I can just tell the difference on phones between the highest quality setting and the default which is equivalent to CD quality.

Its clarity has impressed me, and its low noise floor means that I can make good use of the wide dynamic range - so no need for AGC and the noise pumping which it can produce. But so far I haven't recorded an acoustic piano - my Clavinova obviously wouldn't count...

From my many years of reading Sound on Sound magazine I have learnt that recording an accoustic piano well is actually rather difficult.

There are several factors beyond the piano that influence the quality but the main two will be the microphone and the positioning of the microphone.

As someone else said the easy solution is to record a digital piano. If you are going to record an accoustic piano then you might just have to accept it is a rough-n-ready recording rather than a professional recording. Most decent microphones (including the ones in the better hand held units) are good enough for a reasonable recording. It really comes down to positionin the mics by trial and error. I tried this once for accoustic guitar and found the results changed hugely by moving the mic about (but you need to be methodical and record the positions on some kind of chart).

I think there is a misconception that one simply points a microphone at the instrument and the rest comes from a good performance. If that were the case then many studio engineers would be out of a job

There are several articles on www.soundonsound.com about recording piano (do a search).