Whilst feeling decidedly sorry for myself now that BB is no longer at boarding school and I have to actually be more of a parent , I was wondering how early parents have to get up to either facilitate music practice or cajole their children out of bed to practice.

I need to get up at 6:30am to be out the door by 6:50am for a 7:20am music practice at school. Anyone need to be up earlier than this? If I know someone is worse off than me then I'll take comfort in my 6:30am start!

5:30. Though with practice I can now sleep till 5:45.

Sleep? Sanity? Who needs 'em?

Happily my children have passed the stage where I have the power to prise them out of bed to do practice.

But I had a pupil who was an early riser. The household sprang to life at 6am and she use to practice from 6.30 to 6.45 am which was fine for the stage she was at. She was one of my best practisers and I confess to holding her up to other pupils as a shining example of what can be done. (She used to do lots of sport after school so couldn't fit the music in then.)

I applaud all you parents who get up early to instil regular practice habits in your offspring.

If it wasn't for the optional (BB doesn't know it's optional) practice session at school then we wouldn't do it at home at 7:20am!

That's a pretty late rise here in Australia for most people I know. It's summer and 40 degrees in day time at the moment so most people are up early if they want to do any exercise before work! The difference is that it is light though. Getting up in the dark and cold is not very pleasant as I can well recall from London days. Thank your lucky stars he doesnt swim or row. Those are seriouly early activities.


What time is he going to bed? And how long before he discovers this is optional? Wont take long if he ever talks to anyone! I dont have much luck trying to get mine up to practice while I go to the gym. I thought it would be a great idea but clearly not for night owls who are happy to play into the evening.

*blinks blearily*

Morning? wossoneofthem?

For me mornings are a time to stumble about, mainlining coffee and hoping that I'll have woken up by the time I get to work. The idea of doing anything focused at that time of day appalls me - and the sheer noise of practice would be unbearable.


On a more serious note though - a study I read showed that there are more people who are naturally night owls than early birds, the first shift in melatonin in teenagers, towards more adult sleeping patterns, involve them finding it difficult to get to sleep at night and even harder to wake up in the mornings: it's physiological. Insomnia is very common in the fourteen to sixteen agegroup, and at the same time teens still need the ten to twelve hours that smaller kids do. It's true that some shifting of natural patterns can be achieved, but I am perturbed when early birds (the minority) make a virtue out of what comes naturally to them, and so-called "lazy" teens also get accused of bad habits. Sure, there's a halfway house to look for, I think, and it's not great to be glued to electronics til three am, but at the same time, many teens would, no matter how early they went to bed, struggle to get to sleep until the time their melatonin levels allow them to.

They have found, somewhere, that high schools which start later, at ten, actually can improve performance amongst their pupils, simply by matching their sleep patterns better....

Not sure how that would work Down Under....

He's in bed by 8pm and goes off almost instantly. He is difficult to rouse at 6:40am but I can't seem him getting to sleep before 8pm and at age 11, I think anything below 8pm is quite early. Swimming twice a week would make it impossible for him to get to bed between 7-7:30pm.

Anacrusis, do you think 10.5 hours is enough sleep for a boy aged 11 who is difficult to rouse?

This is what I'm meaning - quite possibly not, but earlier to bed doesn't work for many kids heading into puberty, and catching up with morning sleep at weekends can cause weektime problems. I wish there were an easy answer which would fit into our culture - but the one that would fit the child best is quite possibly not going to match that . We've experienced this in its most extreme form in our household, with one family member not being physically rouseable at "normal" times for about two years - it got to the stage where the alarm clock in that bedroom woke all the rest of the household, just not this one family member. Things have settled now as young adulthood has been reached, but no amount of trying to adjust sleep patterns/find aggressive alarm clocks/repeated attempts at waking/ threats/cajoling worked: the rest of us all needed another nights' sleep after the daily efforts....

Daughter starts her day at 5:30AM. At 6:00AM she will be ready to do her Kumon, which finishes in 30 minutes and rest of the morning is for Piano practice. Any school homework will be done, whilst commuting to school. If there is no homework, she will be on Relative pitch / Triad Tutor.

Approximately, she gets 1 hour and 15 minutes for music practice in morning.

Sanity is over-rated, but sleep is essential.

I don't think 6.30am is particularly early, though we have fortunately never needed to be up before 7am. People we knew with children interested in swimming or ice skating (our nearest rink is 17 miles away) had to be up well before that to get them to their practice sessions before school, so I always felt quite relieved that ours were into music! My son used to get up at 6.30 through secondary school so that he could be up, dressed and fed before 7am when he started a 50 minute music practice.

I think the time we found hardest was when our son had group recorder lessons at 8.30am on Saturdays, so that we had to be up at 7.30am. We'd always relied on our Saturday lie-ins to catch up on sleep, as Sundays tend to be busy with church and having friends round.

Anacrusis, sorry but you are the resident GP or am I mistaken? If not I apologise for the questions!

What do you mean by sleeping in at the weekend causes weekend problems? BB went to bed at 8:30pm on Friday and roused naturally at 7:30am so even though I have to rouse him at 6:40am from an 8pm bed, I wonder if he isn't lacking in too much sleep.

Heck, I feel guilty now!

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I did get up at 6.30am throughout secondary school, and I'm jealous of all those who had to get up that early for music practice! I had to get up at 6.30am because the bus came at 7.32am and I had to get up, and then get down to the bus stop!! That was a public bus so it dropped me off in town to then walk to school - probably arriving about 8.35am.

While the rest of us were still off in the land of Nod, Son A, from age 10 to age 15, used to get up at 6.30 a.m. and do 30 mins piano practice every morning (on digital piano WITH headphones on).

Son B has the major sleep problems common to many teenagers as mentioned above and probably sleeps about 6-7 hours a night and walks around like a zombie half the time.

Mind you, from age 11 both got themselves up (at 6.30 or 7), breakfasted, dressed, did their school bags and walked down to the school bus stop completely by themselves. My OH and I used to wake up at 9 a.m. and find the house empty and so assume that they were safely at school (which they always were). It was bliss.
I once tried getting up to 'help' the younger one and he said I'd ruined his morning and the last thing he needed was me fussing round him. So I stayed in bed after that.


.

She wrote "weektime problems".

Yes I meant week time problems?

I suppose it depends on the instrument and your house but it seems a little un-neighbourly to play a musical instrument (unless muted or digi-piano with headphones) before 9 a.m.

My sons would only get up early for their paper-rounds (their choice!).

Well not wanting to speak for Anacrusis, but I imagine she meant that it's difficult to readjust to the weektime schedule if at the weekend you go to bed late and lie in the following morning.

Interesting observations from Anacrusis.

I am naturally the 'early bird', hubby, the 'night owl'. Mattthew appears to be taking after his father, no2son, who at 11 has yet to hit puberty properly is more of an 'early bird' and has always needed less sleep than his brother. He also is much better at 'cat napping' when it is needed.

Neither of my boys do early morning practice sessions. Practice is done after school and before dinner.

Unless they really are early birds, how beneficial is early morning practice? How much better is it to optimise the time after school and before the evening meal.

Arrive home, have a drink and a snack and list everything that needs to get done: homework set that day, practice, ongoing project work. Divide the time available with the tasks set. If there are one or two television programmes the child wants to watch, record them and have them available as an incentive for when the work is finished.

If necessary have the work that needs to be done written down as a to-do list. Get them to work through the list and tick things off once they complete each task. Praise and Reward for each task done.

At Supper time (ideally eaten as a family) everyone can relax knowing that all tasks are done. Time can then be spent as a family playing a game, for example, before bed-time.

Even teens enjoy family game play as long as the game is of a suitable level for them. Family games on a device such as a WII goes down well with pre-teens and teens.

Much as they will protests, ensure pre-teens and teens get an early enough bed-time.

The other thing we tend to do as a family is all sit around the TV and choose a film to watch.

So many children have such programmed lives, that time just chilling with mum and dad is missing from their lives. It is good to see us laugh and to laugh with us at funny things. Game play teaches them social interaction and turn taking skills. Depending on the game, it can also be very funny seeing mum or dad making a real fool of themselves and laughing with them. A family meal eaten around a dining table, again not only ensures they eat a proper meal, it also allows family time and time for everyone to share their day, their highlights and their concerns.

As a rule of thumb the time immediately after getting up and the time before going to bed is a bad time to work. Why expect your child to practise their musical instruments then? Either their concentration will be lousy, or you are pre-programming them to a life of insommnia. Much better to plan things so they are doing things at a more productive time when they have had time to take stock of school and a chance to plan their afternoon.

A

I would say for most children this would indeed be ideal - however almost all my pupils have several clubs after school on almost every day, and the days they have free tend to be taken up with siblings needing ferried from place to place! I don't always agree with how many activities they take on, but the vast majority enjoy all their after school stuff and would be loathe to give it up just to practice more. Homework often gets done in the car/bus or after a late dinner before bed. Fitting it in where possible is difficult, and early morning before school is often the only free time the child has. I don't know what IS ideal - and I have a suspicion that it would be vastly different for each child anyway... Its up to the individual family and child to work out the most productive time to do it, when it won't clash with any other activities.

Well virtually all the conservatoires and all the spec music courses and every boarding school my children have been to say that early morning music practice is of the highest quality...

I think it depends on the child... If they can be up and awake enough at that time then yes I do think they can definitely produce some of their best work as they are focussed and alert. One of my pupils gets into the habit of practising first thing while at school and the difference between her term time practice and holiday practice (where she does the same amount but in the afternoon) is vastly different. Also when teaching in schools you can really notice the difference in the same class being taught first period compared to at the end of the day. But if you are half asleep you are not going to pick up on all the mistakes you make... Or necessarily be very coordinated!! If BB produces good practice at that time and it fits into the schedule well then keep going with it

My 9 year old daughter does her practice before school because she is too tired after a day at school to concentrate then - the quality of practice done am is much better.

My son leaves the house at 7.40 so doesn't have time before school to practice. He usually gets home at 4.10 unless he has an after school club. With music practice and homework he wouldn't get it all done before dinner unless we ate at a stupidly late hour which would mean my daughter was in bed much too late for her. Unfortunately my husband doesn't get home from work in time to eat with us on week nights - he comes in as my daughter is getting ready for bed or later. But he eats breakfast with her in the morning so spends time with her then - although it would help with the violin practice if he ate just that little bit faster!

My almost 14 year old son now doesn't go to bed until about 10. Any earlier and he does not sleep anyway, plus he needs time after he has completed his homework to chill out. He manages to drag himself out of bed in the mornings and pretty much gets himself to school, but does sleep in at the weekend. Not ideal , but as with everything we all have to run our families the way that suits us, and that way is rarely ideal. Thankfully he isn't at one of the growing number of schools near here that start at 8am. They obviously havent read the research about teenage sleep patterns. Mind you the students are often home before my son has even finished school so I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

Yep, that was what I meant . There is some degree of adjustment you can make to getting up and sleeping times, but most people have an internal, biological clock, which doesn't always co-incide with the one prescribed by Society: if you do get a very lot of sleep one day though, it does delay falling asleep time the next: sleeping in til midday on weekend days will lead to difficulty falling asleep on sunday nights, and then make the first couple of days of the week a bit of a boss-eyed struggle.

Serious reply: think 6:30 sounds OK, but I would keep to a do-able schedule until BB has had time to adjust to new school and new schedule. Maybe re-think in summer, and he may have his own ideas (!) about his schedule by then?

He currently finishes school at 3:40pm - it used to be 6:10pm and he has swimming twice a week. We've stopped choir rehearsals for now so I don't think he's got too much on. I just wish he was easier to wake!

I do think you get used to whatever timetable you have to adapt to. As Maizie said, many children are getting up at this time or earlier just to manage their journey to school so if this time can be spent practising then it is time well spent.

I am rather jealous as Claudia gets up early but can't practise because of the noise to neighbours (seriously thinking of getting an electric violin with headphones because of it).

If you haven't already, it may be worth asking your neighbours if they get up early and if so if they'd prefer Claudia practiced at 7am rather than in the evening. It may be that if the neighbours are early risers then violin music will not irritate them.

Haha, but it will irritate me (still fast asleep then!)

It is not the neighbours that are the problem as we live in a detached house. It is the other members of the household.

My husband would not be very happy if he was awoken at 6:45am by the sound of Violin and Flute Practice.

The children may have got it out of the way, however he would then 'get out of the wrong side of bed' and be tired all day. Remember he's the night owl, I'm the Lark. Large quantities of tea will not fix it either!

My daughter practices in the morning from 7 - 7.50 as she doesn't finish school until 4.00pm and without after school musical committments gets in at 5.00pm (with it's at least an hour later). School starts at 8.35 so I made a pact with her in year 7 that if she practices in the morning (when she is without doubt at her personal best) then I will take her into school each day rather than travel by bus which would leave at 7.25 so mean that she couldn't practice.

She practices until 7.30 am with a practice mute and then takes it out after 7.30 when all the neighbours are up getting their own children ready for school. We do have a detached house but the trombone sound is still a bit audible outside but no worse than a car stereo or people chatting etc. Practice in the evening is rarely a great success as she is generally shattered and has quite a bit of prep.

I don't set a "bed time" as such because she would just lie in bed and read so lights out is without fail at 10.00pm. Mobile phone and ipod have to be left downstairs out of her room overnight - partly so as not to tempt her (she's not an avid facebooker but would tend her smurfs on an ipod application if given the chance!) and also so that her friends who have later bedtimes don't disturb her by texting etc.

Most mornings she manages to get herself up and ready by 7.00 but I always set an alarm for 6.30 (hers goes off at 6.00 or 5.45 if she decides to shower in the morning rather than the night before) so that if she ignores it then she won't be late.

I guess everyone's different but for her it works, it certainly wouldn't for me as I'm an insomniac night owl!

Neither of my children are larks so do their practise after school. I don't think my neighbours (semi) would appreciate a trumpet or electric guitar at 6:30 in the morning!

But I do remember as a child getting up at 6:30 to practice cello and piano before school - in NZ so not hideously dark or freezing cold as a far as I remember and we didn't start school until 9pm (short walk away). It was necessary in order to fit everything in - tap lessons, piano and cello (then later on flute) lessons, orchestra and band practise, Brownies/Guides, youth group... and on and on. My children do a mere fraction of this - I'm far too lazy to ship them all around the county!

Music practice in our happens at both ends of the day, else there would be no chance of getting it done. Epiphanya is 13 and in year 8 does 30 mins between 7:30 and 8 a.m. of piano most days towards her Grade 7. Every evening, she does about 1.5 hours on the fiddle. Not possible to schedule that in any other way when she doesn't finish school till 5.30 with prep to do. Still she seems quite on top of it!

When I was at school/college (about 4-5 years ago now eek!) I used to practice in a morning as it was just easier - my parents used to like me getting up at around 6:40am as it meant they knew I was up and we could all have breakfast together before my dad and I left. My brother didn't have to be up that early so he would get up to have breakfast with us and would then go back to sleep on the living room sofa for a bit while I got ready and practised - he and my mum would carry on getting ready once we'd gone.

Tbh I would normally only get about 10-15 minutes in but that was really all I needed at the time as I was at a fairly low level, and I would often have found it difficult to practice in an evening as I was out 2-3 evenings a week and often just about had time to eat and change before I left, so practising wouldn't have happened at all some days had I not made use of that short time in a morning.

I am thinking of quoting John McEnroe at some of you

I used to do my scales and arpeggios before school - because that was essential, need to be able to do it in my sleep, stuff - and do practice that required intellectual and artistic input after tea. I am not nor have I ever been a morning person, but there is usually 15 minutes general messing about/hanging about time for children in the morning which might as well be put to good use.

Something about being serious?

I like to keep the boys lives varied, yet not over programmed. Bedtimes are sensible, as are rising times. They do things after school, but are allowed chill too.

Practise is done at a sensible time, and homework finished at a time that they can rest, relax and have a life as well as enjoy their music.

At sixth form I learnt that burning the candle at both ends does not work. I do not want my sons making the same mistake.

Much as I admire talented children, they are children not machines. They need cuddles, and sleep, and food. Time with friends, time with mum and dad. A constant programme of activities can be exhausting. They do need time to gather their thoughts and just be.

I wish I could do my practice before work but I don't think anyone else in the house is going to appreciate flute playing around 6am.

I'm pretty impressed that if you need to be out of the door at 6.50 you don't get up until 6.30!

I get up at 5.45 in the week, but take rather longer to get ready than you do. Partly because I have more energy in the mornings than I do in the evenings so tend to do chores like emptying the dishwasher then. By the time I'm home from work (6pm), have made, eaten and cleared supper, supervised the younger daughter's practice or taken them to lessons, and have checked all homework is done, I'm exhausted.

I don't think I have ever in my working life got up later than 6.30.

The girls don't practice in the mornings on week days, but sometimes do at weekends.

I've often wondered how children who play a lot of instruments fit it all in. I've been trying to get my daughter up at 7am to do her scales - managed it three times this week and have seen an improvement already! Once I've got her going, she seems very productive in the morning. She has something on every day after school whether it's netball, hockey, orchestras or Guides, plus homework of course, so rarely does she have time to do pieces and scales (she's preparing for Gr7 and to cover everything takes around 90 mins). I think we all want 'well rounded' kids who have other interests as well as music so I wouldn't stop her doing the other things she likes to do but bedtime is never before 9pm which is probably quite late for an 11 year old. By the way, 16 year old son only practises once a week, the night before his lesson when the guilt has presumably set in... and he thinks he's taking his performance diploma this year!! His A Level work load when he gets home from school means he doesn't get to bed till gone 11pm so he's definitely unable to function early in the morning!