Hi. I like both types of music. Is it possible to learn both side by side. If I just learn fiddle then I will feel that I will not be covering enough violin technique so feel I need to approach things from a classical perspective. I would much prefer to play in a folk/ fiddle ensemble than an orchestra. Just interested to know if anyone ries to do both styles at the same time...

I'm learning both, although my 'Classical' perspective is actually Baroque technique. Having said that I'm going through Wohlfhart and using it as exercise material.
I focus mainly on the Classical. Probably 90% of the time is devoted to that. For the trad. I practice (everyday) the common ornaments of cuts, rolls, that funny triplet bowing and the odd slide. It probably doesn't take up much more than 5 minutes per day. Over time I suspect that they will become faster and much more fluent, despite giving so little time to them. One or two days per week I will give a trad tune a little more serious time, trying to focus on the 'lilt' and the odd position of the accents. That's the part that seems so alien to me. I naturally want to play it in a more strict and formal Classical style. Again I suspect it's just a matter of practice, careful listening and time. I don't really see the two styles as 'harming' each other. On the contrary. That very rapid triplet bowing is doing wonders for obtaining a loose wrist. I'm pretty sure the Classical exercises are helping the trad as well, why shouldn't it?

Agreed! I've just had to devote extra time to Celidh tunes as had a military gig for burns night, and my RH is now much more relaxed. It's also very much more together with my fingers. There is no reason why you can't do both together, they complement very well. So long as you don't hanker after holding your fiddle and bow in a TOO relaxed manner like you see some fiddlers....

Hi, I have to agree that it's very possible, as long as your observant of any bad habits you may be picking up from either side!
I started classical violin when I was 7, and then folk when I was about 13 or 14 and I don't think it's done me any harm at all as a classical player, in fact I'm sure it's improved my aural skills an awful lot!
I recently had a folk lesson with a fairly well known young fiddler, and the way he explained it to me after he heard me play, was that my basic technique was solid (from classical playing), but it was about building up a 'toolbox' of things to use when playing folk - the things Michael N mentioned like ornaments, bowing techniques, accents etc. Then it's just getting used to knowing how to fit them in to a tune!
Good luck with your playing, and enjoy! There's so much wonderful stuff out there in both genres

Is it possible to learn classical and traditional music at the same time?

Yes.

Oh and don't be put off by the Irish trad. music fascists. The type who think that if you don't sound or play like Michael Coleman you aren't 'trad'. Although it is largely an oral tradition, that particular era is just a snapshot in time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they were adding and embellishing what had gone on before. Go back far enough and the players may have sounded (almost certainly) a little different.
Just my opinion. I could be very wrong!

thanks everyone. I would like the stricter discipline of classical in terms of correct posture, bow hold, bow arm etc but want to play both styles, but probably am more interested in Klezmer, tangos,shetland fiddle etc etc
How important is it to learn scales? would a traditional music teacher teach these. Also I need to learn position work and vibrato.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is less possible to learn these techniques as well from a traditional music teacher than a classical one. I actually would like to be corrected as I wouldn't mind learning to play violin well but through treaditional music.
I am looking for a teacher so trying to decide what type of teacher would be best.

I think i would probably opt for a teacher of Classical if that was the only choice. It must be said that Classical is the style that uses practically the entire length of the fingerboard. every last millimetre of the Bow, with a multitude of techniques and in every single key.
Many of the trad ornaments are very similar to Classical turns or grace notes, just done with different timing, attack and feel. The rest can be learned through concentrated listening to the trad style that you admire. It's fairly simple to take an MP3 and use something like Audacity to really slow the piece down. That makes it much easier to emulate the style. There are also a number of Youtube videos that show the ornaments. You can also add the Matt Crannitch or Pete Cooper book as well.
Some fiddlers certainly move up position, many just stay in first. A trad teacher may teach scales but they are very likely to be in a few common keys, certainly not as extensive as the Classical lot. I think it's fairly obvious that Classical technique will give you more strings to your Bow, if you'll pardon the expression. What it can't do is teach you to be any more musical than a trad player.

I have no idea whether a trad music teacher would teach them, but scales and arpeggios form the basis of hundreds of trad tunes, though as Michael N points out, they are generally restricted to a few keys. So not only would learning them be of massive benefit, you could also be learning them, a fragment at a time, without even knowing it, just by learning trad tunes.

I play/learn a mix of classical, Bluegrass, Klezmer and folk music. The classical stuff definitely helps. For example - knowing the scales and arpeggios certainly helps when it comes to improvising. As Michael N suggests the scales I've learned are generally the ones I need for the pieces I'm playing or the improvising key, but then that's not much different from classical - you learn scales X,Y and Z to play the pieces for grade N exams.

Technique wise - I saw Blazin' Fiddles last year and from the look of them they'd all been classically trained.

I don't know how a "fiddle/traditional" teacher would differ from a classically trained one - mine is RAM trained but plays Bluegrass too. His main tip - watch your bowing. In BG you "sit" on the strings more - lower elbow than you would for classical.

I'm not sure if they have or not, but they have certainly been steeped in the Scots folk music tradition since childhood. And aren't they absolutely amazing? One of my favourite bands.

Hi thanks for all your replies. I has been playing in a traditional/folk ensemble but having classical lessons with a totally classical teacher. The teacher was lovely and very much commited to helping me improve but has no experience of different bowing and other techniques for laying folk traditional music. So we have parted ways and I have now found a classically trained traditional musician who, as she is Scottish, has hopefully been immersed in Scottish traditional music from the year dot...Here's hoping it all works out

Just another point of view from a Scottish classical violin teacher...


What I have found is that doing both is great to start with, they can compliment each other and you can learn a lot from the different styles and techniques HOWEVER once you reach a certain point they will start to fight each other - at the moment I have stopped teaching a very promising young violinist of around grade 5 level classically because she needed to focus entirely on one style at the level she was reaching.

Classically she had an excellent position and bow hold, her vibrato was developing beautifully and very securely, and she was happy playing in 2nd, 3rd and 4th position. Her scottish playing was beginning to interfere though - she was competing at a national level traditionally, and winning a lot, and her trad teacher was spending a lot of time on bowing technique and ornamentation, and that was starting to affect her phrasing and style of playing in her classical pieces. She felt she had to choose - neither teacher forced her too, but she could see herself how it was clashing - and at that point she had been offered a junior conservatoire place and had been told by them that at some point soon she would need to specialise. So she did. She chose trad, and I am still gutted 6 months on that she did. She has so much potential classically, and her vibrato and position work will barely be touched on in her trad playing. But she loves it, and her trad playing has reached another level now she can dedicate her time to work on Scottish technique. She still plays classical pieces and jazzy pieces for fun, but no longer worries too much about playing them "correctly".

I on the other hand was the opposite - all the way through school I played scottish music for fun, I loved it, found it easy and I too competed at festivals and Mods and played in several ceilidh and fiddle groups - but I chose to work more classically, and as such never really learnt proper Scottish technique - especially not the bowing.

Im not saying this to put you off playing both... I did for years and loved it, and it has done me no harm - however I would say it is harder to go from trad based playing to classical playing, as classical probably gives you a more secure foundation to open up a wider range of styles.

I hope this makes sense, and I hope you enjoy your violin playing journey - it great fun not matter what style of music you play!!


Small footnote - you mentioned Shetland fiddle - can I just advise that the Shetland style of playing is very different from standard Scottish fiddle playing, and as such is quite a specialised genre...

No, I'm not sure either, it was just how it looked to my amateur eye. I saw them on TV a year or two back and there were all manner of bow holds (like on the stick not the frog) and the like, but the version of them I saw last year all had very "classical" bow holds and much more finger rather than arm action - which I overheard someone in the audience say was a more classical approach. But what do I know? How ever they learned I'd love to be able to play like that - it was exhilarating!

Out of interest could anyone confirm or deny what I over heard - that traditional bowing uses more of the arm, rather than finger flexibility. Thinking about it now - I would imagine it would be really hard work to play very fast with the action coming mostly from the arm. Sorry off topic. . .

It is Shetland style music I would really like to play...amongst other things. I probably am not that interested in playing classical pieces seriously unless it's Hungarian Dances or something classical with a bit of oommpf (is that a word?!!!)

I'll take a guess and say that they tend to use the wrist rather than a strict Colle/finger type bowing. Many do shorten the Bow and play on the stick (not all) but even that is very similar to the way that Baroque specialists hold the bow.