Has anybody taken the decision or deriously considered leaving school to allow children greater freedom to practice/ partake in musical activities?

Just recently, it seems as though there are not enough hours in the day for viledin to practice/ do all she wants to musically. She has no homework so this isn't a problem.
I then found an interesting thread on another parents site where all the home ed parents seemed happy and their children thriving especially in music, the arts and sport.

I then started to consider this as an option myself, although I think I must be mad or something.

I know there are many other reasons parents choose home ed, but I am obviously looking at the extra time at home for music.

I'm doing it....

Fullofwind
If you don't mind me asking has the music practice/playing improved a great deal as a result of he. It would be good to know how its working for others with similar interests as I have only just started considering the options.
I think it may be better for me to wait until high school entry as viledin has always attended school and I think it may be mean to take her out now, she is y3 now.

Waiting will also give your daughter more time to decide what she wants out of her education. If she is still dead set on music perhaps a specialist music school - with "proper" teachers for the other bits of the curriculum might be a better bet. Certainly, I would not feel qualified to teach my children very much of the secondary school curriculum, though others may feel some of this is better neglected anyway..

How much practice does she need to do and how long is the school day? At Year 3 age we had plenty time after school for practice and music clubs. Our senior school options required travelling and extensive homework so it would have been impossible to fit in practice and continue with extra curricular music and activities. Something would have had to give and this way it doesn't. Being very flexible also allows us access to teachers at conservatoires who would normally not teach a young child but have some time free during the day so are happy to slot us in as and when they can. We also supplement with a large number of residential holiday courses - mainly music, but also adventure holidays - for more socialisation and my sanity! Evenings are filled with activities, again for socialisation. Some home ed groups run day schools, some structured and some fairly hippish - bushcraft etc. I'm planning to send mine to one of those one day a week.

Her school day is good really. We leave at 8.30 and she is home at 3.30. She just seems to have to cram in all her activities and everything seems to have come at once. She plays violin, sings, choir, practice on voice and violin and now wants to play saxophone and piano. I know she won't probably keep these up but I would like her to choose what she wants to keep. Besides music she dances and performs in shows and as she started at age 2 its hard to say no. Obviously she will give this up in due course as already she seems as though music is more important to her, but for now she is commited to all of it until at least feb next year.
She loves practice and says if she didn't have to go to school she would play music all day. Not that we have discussed home ed with her yet. She also wants to audition for a jd when she is 11 and knows the commitment she will need for practice. I would hate her life to be school, practice and no free time.
You seem to have a good balance and confidence in your decision, I'm glad it works well for you and thank you for sharing your experience with me.



A very good point, she seems to know where she is going but could change her mind with so many of the instruments/ dancing she does. I am a qualified FE teacher and would feel ok with some subjects but think a maths tutor would be needed. We would keep her music teachers as one is private and the other could be persuaded to be. I know what you mean about the curriculum, personally I favour the academic subjects and feel that their is too little choice in languages and humanities are dropped too soon in many schools. But thats another story.

We did considered this seriously as daughter wants to embrace music. None of the Secondary school Heads were interested in the education-off site clause, whilst our discussion on 11+ open days. So, we left out with only 2 options! Either home-ed or a Specialist music school. But she won a place in Music School.

There are Home-Ed Facebook groups, where you can find wealth of information. Also, mumsnet and other forums has good info in this area.

Daughter started Music only at Summer term of Year 3, but she practiced a min of 2 hours during year 4 and year 5. Now she is in year 6 and practice a minimum of 3 hours on piano on weekdays and 5 hours during weekends / holidays.

We dropped many other lessons including Gymnastics, Dance and Drama in favour of Music but still find time for Martial Arts, Kumon Maths and Ashtanga Yoga. Regarding school homework I'll do most of them for her, so she is completely free from 4PM.

From my limited experience, I'd think the right time is switch to Home Ed is Secondary.

What is the point in doing her homework for her?

I think if you give her time she will decide for herself where her heart lies. I can't tell you how much your situation echos our position. My daughter took herself inot her sisters dance class at 2 .

We've never had any concessions over school work daughter made her choices around year 7 time. It's not always been easy but it has been doable. You will find a routine that allows her to practice and you may find that she has a focus for a while and that changes. Just be careful if you choose to feed the music passion as it gets harder to persuade them to specialise later on.

I don't know what is best in the home ed V school debate. I'm sure both are equally worth considering. Most schools these days do offer drama and dance as part of the corriculum so there may be a way for her to keep up these activities too whilst being in school.

Perhaps another option- Flexischooling, if the school is amenable to it? Would mean she/he would be able to do the school work for say 2-3 days out of a 5 day week and then home-schooling for 2-3 days a week perhaps focusing on music more?

Plus that way you still get the benefit of more subject specialist teachers as well as having the time to do music.

I don't have any firsthand experience of it, but I think the Cellist who won BBC YMOTY Strings final used the system to do her music.

Are you serious?

Thank you for the idea of flexi schooling. I have heard of this but don't know any who openly offer it round here. I would certainly look at it as an option nearer secondary stage.
Her Dad has bought her an alto due to arrive today but it is only for messing about with as a treat when other practice is done. I know this may seem a bit odd but her Dad will eventually teach her and her teeth are nearly fully formed but not quite yet.

Yes! That turned out the best for her.



This link has reference to rules on Flexi-schooling
http://www.home-education.org.uk/articles/...lexi-school.pdf

It's very difficult to get permission for flexi schooling as it sets a precendent for other parents asking to do the same thing and that can create chaos for teachers. I also feel that it singles a child out as being different or getting special treatment.

So as I understand it, she's good at music but has no clue on any other subject....

Sunil - did you really mean that you do her homework FOR her or WITH her? If its for her then thats just wrong! The purpose of homework is to encourage a child to work and think of solutions on thier own. This practice comes to fruition at GCSE/A level through to University when the student has to revise on thier own. There after it becomes a life skill.

Thank you very much for the link. Will certainly take a look.
I would refuse homework if I didn't think it was necessary, but viledins school doesn't send it as they feel able to cover most things in class and she is slightly above national average so I leave her. She does read for 15 mins every night as school/ we feel this is essential and reasonable.

I know when my two were in primary school the only point of many of the homeworks seemed to be to get them in the habit of doing homework. In this situation it can be very tempting to do homeworks for them; they don't get into trouble and they have time to do things that seem more worthwhile. I confess I did finish off a few drawings, colourings, models etc....... Of course you can't really learn their spellings, reading, multiplication tables etc. for them.

Everyone is different and I think in Sunil's case she would have home eded if she could so doing moronic homework does not mean her daughter was not able or coping at school.

There is a huge difference between colouring in the picture for them (which can be very time consuming and slightly pointless) and doing a sheet of maths for them.

I have home-schooled my son for 12 years - all the way from year 1 to GCSEs. It definitely gave him far more time for music practice - so much time is wasted at school. But your daughter would had to realise that she will also have to do school work at home, not just play music all day. as she gets older, she will obviously have more school work to do. However, unless you wanted the usual quota of 10plus GCSEs (totally unnecessary unless aiming for medicine) she would always have plenty of spare time for music. We home-schooled for many reasons, but the spare time to pursue particular interests was a special bonus. Don't think that home-ed at secondary level is a doddle though - it is very doable, but needs your commitment. And exam preparation is HARD work!

I am just at the end of my home-schooling career - son is going to sixth form in September, but definitely worth it

Though Sunil mentioned that Kumon maths is one of his/her daughter's out of school interests. I've no experience of that but suspect she may be well ahead in maths already, in which case the school maths homework might, in her case, seem just as pointless as the colouring did to me..

In which case the maths would be done very quickly by the child and wouldn't need it to be done by the parent. When my children brought home Maths that was too easy I wrote a note at the bottom of the homework, or in the homework diary. How else is the teacher supposed to set work of the right level?

I also did same.

I teach children that are being Home schooled and have done so for several years. The parents do not have the knowledge to teach my subject, English, so they come to me. My OH occasionally teaches science and maths, to the same. As teachers we still set homework and expect it to be done by the student. If the parent is doing it, there is absolutely no benefit to the child. It is the child who is learning and the child who is taking the exam.
I am neither for Home Ed or against it. Its the parents choice. However it has enabled me to provide a service and draw an income within my home during the day , and I dont have to deal with the headaches of an Educational institution.

None of my own children have ever brought home "moronic" coloring in so I cant comment on that

In my teaching world I have met only one parent who I think got the Home Ed thing bang on. They had a old fashioned Governess who taught the three children at home.

Even now, in her GCSE year, my daughter had an English homework which involved designing yellow wallpaper. Maybe it somehow helped her understanding of the story they were reading- "The Yellow Wallpaper" - or maybe it explains why she feels badly prepared for next Monday's English Lit exam.

Actually, I'm not in favour of parents doing homework for their offspring. I think when you commit your child to a school you're agreeing to respect the judgment of the school and it's teachers, and if that means offspring must do daft homework so be it. Of course teachers should be open to discuss it, but telling your child their homework is pointless so you'll dispose of it for them is (my opinion) a bit disrespectful. I don't necessarily know better than their teachers - just different. Nevertheless, I felt the need to admit (above) that I have succumbed to temptation from time to time

Glad to see the Parents forum is busy again, after being quiet for many months !

Thank you all for raising the concerns / question regarding my daughter. She is neither brilliant to become expert in every subject she learns nor interested in many activities which are part of Curriculum. I don't see anything wrong with that.

But once again, thank you for all your concerns but let us focus more on OP's query

You are spot on! She is in Level I (taking exams next week and will move on to J soon)

I don't know whether that is advanced or not, here is the brief sheet we got from Kumon detailing the levels

it says "Quadratic equations, factorisation, Sq. Roots, Pythagorean Theorem etc"

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e12/suniil/kumonlevels.jpg

As you (and FullofWind) mentioned, no point in doing all the time consuming drawings, paintings, cut & paste pictures. Whatever she has to learn / do by herself (eg. spellings), she will try to do it while commuting to & from School.



Yes, she is happy and fine with her classmates but hesitant to do anything that disrupts her music activities. For me, personally I'm happy as long as she does her Kumon!

Ah well thats why we (my OH and I) pick up the slack and earn good money when child reaches GCSE/A level and parents are panicking that said child cannot spell, read, write an essay etc ... is waaaay behind in the general subjects, we are the private teachers that have to cram them with the skills and knowledge they should have been slowly acquiring in their school years.

Incidently my youngest also did Kumon Maths. All it did was put her waaay ahead of her contemporaries. At A level she was so far ahead she was bored out of her mind and gave it up altogether. In year 13 she herself had two private math students - that on top of her many music commitments, LSSO, JD, Senior Orchestra, Borough Orchestra, auditioning for Berklee, member of tomorrow warriors, and two other Bands, playing Viola and Sax), whilst taking 4 A levels.

You dont have to give up the run of the mill curriculum subjects just for music. To my mind there is nothing more sad than musicians who cant hold a conversation on anything else but music.

I continue to be at a loss as to "colouring in" and "cut and paste", with 4 children now aged 30 down to 20 none have ever brought anything like that home for homework at primary or secondary level.

I bow out now

Ok - so a bit off topic (apologies) but am I the only one who is worried about the moral aspect of doing a child's homework for them?
Why tell your child it's ok to pass off somebody else's work as their own - whether that work is yours, or copied over a friend's shoulder in an exam?

One of the things that infuriates me about homework in France is that parents are expected to do their children's homework for them

When I first started teaching I couldn't understand why parents of fourteen or fifteen year-olds would come and see me at parents' evenings and say sadly that their child would no longer let them do their homework for them

When my own children started school, I was defeated by the system - in primary school, where homework is illegal, they were regularly given things to do that they couldn't do by themselves so I had no choice but to do it for them. I resisted for some time until one of the teachers eventually pointed out to me that this was what I was supposed to be doing and what any "normal" parent would do

In an ideal world it would be better to just state that your child wasn't doing any homework.

No you're not. I hope the child is coached into what to reply when questioned as to how 'she' got the answers...
Heading for a fall in my humble opinion.

No Tonedeafmum that was what was worrying me too.

But Sunil's daughter is working well beyond the homework set for her so it is a waste if her time. If you asked a teacher if homework was ever supposed to be a waste of a child's time they would say no. If it were me then I might do their homework but only if my child was doing a higher level set by me at the same time. Or maybe I'd send in the higher work they did instead of their homework.

On a lighter note I can remember the Victoria Wood sketch doing the school run. Kids packing homework and blowing recorders whilst she did the fingering. It was really hilarious. I am now showing my age arghhhh!

Oh - I remember that! It's all about that dreadful transformation that comes over mothers at 8:30 in the morning when they're trying to get their children out of the house to school on time.
Horribly, horribly realistic!

Surely it is better either to ask the school to set homework at an appropriate level or if they can't or won't, agree with them that there is no point in doing it. There was a boy in my daughter's primary school who in year 6 was working on A level maths with a tutor. The school knew and didn't give him any maths homework at all as far as I recall.

Of course homework shouldn't be a waste of the child's time. But neither should it be a waste of the parent's time or a waste of the teacher's time in marking it!

deleted--- decided not to post --- Thanks

Whichever method parents choose to educate their children can only work and not be detrimental if a balanced education is given and importance given to all the subjects. In a subject such as music, the view may be taken that if more time is given to it at a young age the child will be successful if they chose to be a professional musician as a career: unfortunately, as we all know, competition is fierce, even for excellent musicians. It is therefore the reason why even specialist music schools deem an all-round education as important so other options for a career can be considered if need be.

As for homework, it may be too easy at times for some children but it is the start of learning to develop time management skills as well as developing the ability to work independently outside the teaching situation.

Does that include the ability to delegate?

W

That's so funny, willobie. You've got me there. Delegation, all in good time.

I totally agree with you. My husband started music at 16, he had dabbled before but no formal training or lessons at all. He was a natural and within 6 months or so was in local student bands and passed grade 5, 6, obviously theory and then at 18 he was taking solos in a national youth orchestra then music college taking grade 8 a few months before audition. Now he is a professional musician of some repute in his field and from the moment he started playing says he never wanted to do anything else. However, had he not made the grade he had A-Levels and O' levels to fall back on.

I have seen some terrible homework in my time and like Sunil I have been known to "add borders" (a time wasting activity par excellence) to a piece of written work, colour in various bits of rubbish and draw a plan of an indoor cricket pitch (novel one for an 11 year old unsporty girl) while DD perfected a concert piece! I pinned a note to the plan to say that DD was very busy and had a big performance coming up so I had helped her. I didnt say how much. She found one on the internet - I drew it! As there was no learning objective attached I assumed that as they never play cricket of any kind then the task must have been about finding obscure info and she did that. And I was close to sendng a note back to teacher saying "had better things to do" but didnt want to set child up to be hated for rest of year.

The problem is that you dont want to be known as a trouble maker so no one ever dobs in setters of terrible homework to their superiors! I dont think you are setting up your child to be immoral if you tell them it's a matter of setting priorities and if anyone asks tell the truth. Perfect a tricky passage prior to a concert versus borders or an indoor cricket pitch plan? No contest.

I did.

Actually, I've never yet a met a teacher who doesn't accept a politely written note of explanation from a parent.
Lying to make life easier is very understandable and everyone does it now and again but it is not more acceptable just because a child has talents and opportunities that his or her peers lack.

Actually I did that in last month, but in a slightly polite way.

Onemoretime, if your husband made such phenomenal progress in such a short space of time, is there any need to home ed your daughter so she can pursue music at a young age?

Home Ed.. Make a list. Who is going to home ed your child? You? Can you afford to stay home and do so? Can you afford to get the extra professional tutor to do so? How old is your child? Err do you have other children? If yes what about those? If no..do you plan to have more later? what happens then? What grade/level is this musical one?

Have a consulation at a JD. The child may be keen but just at the normal level for age & experience or a prodigy... A consultation will put you on the right path. How about attending a JD? Children do change their minds as they get older, particularly in the teen years, its a huge chance you are considering to indulge more time to music now. Many talented children at JDs leave to go into other fields because they are heartily sick of the competitive nature of music and just want to play for personal enjoyment. Not such a bad thing methinks. One thing that becomes clear at JDs, is that there are many many very talented musical children who are way ahead of your own child. So what are you going to do? Hot House your reaonably talented child up to be better than others? Or just accept that your child is good very good but actually not brilliant?

However, if your child is a progidy perhaps you could try for a specialist music school such as Purcell or Chets at secondary level. Most of the music activities you may want her/him to partake in are usually outside of school hours (Wknds and after school) so I presume you are talking about practising. Will your child just be practising or are you thinking about having additonal music tuition during the "school hours"? Wil you be able to have a tutor at these times?

With 2 of our children now professional musicans I think the JD route provided tuition and opportunities of a high standard, great environment without the loss of normal home and regular school life. I dont think they practised as much as they should have (from reading number of hours on this Forum ) but they both assured us that being in every orchestra, band, chamber group, tours etc, they were certainly "practising".

I think it is possible to progress quickly as my husband did, but he is not able to do many things that an all round music teacher would be able to. For example couldn't accompany students in exams and works in a very specialised field. Which is great if you need what he does but alas not so good if you want to go down the classical path. I think a more rounded musical education would give our daughter more opportunities.

Thank you for the insight and it is definitely jd's she is looking at, unless she does turn out to be exceptional and gain a scholarship. She loves music and has done since a baby really and takes any opportunity to join in with her dad or I (although I don't play much at moment). The home ed solution to not enough hours in the day is only a consideration and wouldn't affect the household at all, apart from there would be no school. I am a qualified teacher and would be confident with all except maths. I don't work and other children are at college or uni. Most schools would be too far away for travel and would never dream of sending her away, so we would be looking at the local ones really. London and the south are out of the question for daily attendance.