When I play my violin I often find that it starts to slide off my shoulder when I am playing it. Obviously this makes it quite difficult to play and I was wondering if anyone knew what causes it and how it can be stopped? Thanks

Are you using a shoulder rest? If not, it might be a good idea to try one. If you are, try adjusting the position of it - or even try a different type.

I don't use a shoulder rest and my violin does not slip anywhere!

How long have you been playing the violin and yes, do you use a shoulder rest or not?

Sometimes some people who do use a shoulder rest rely too much on the shoulder rest to hold the violin in place for them and don't involve the left hand in holding it and hence it slips about.
Sometimes, actually often....it can be a sign of tension, once everything is really relaxed the slipping ceases....

Sometimes you need a better fitting chin rest also, and sometimes it is just the way you hold the violin not just with the left hand, but at what angle, where it 'rests' etc so it will be impossible for us to say exactly what it is....

Do you have a teacher? Ask them first port of call as each individual is different.

Jojo is right, some play with a rest, others without. I for one can't play without....If you need a rest, I recommend the wolfe as you can bend it to fit you (and adjust the height too). I also like the resonans ones - and they are much cheaper - for the same reason. You can bend them to fit the best they can.

I've also discovered that my bad posture (slouching) is now having an effect as it pushes my violin round - I start with it in the right position and then it gradually swings forward as my shoulder comes forward. So now I'm trying to relax my shoulders and keep them in a good position as opposed to hunching.

As the others say, it's impossible to diagnose without seeing what you're doing. The use of a shoulder rest, and the choice of which one, is just one possible explanation. Posture, the size and position of the chin rest, and even your choice of clothing can all have an effect.

Jojo! You're back. Great to see (read) you!

Hello jojo! it's been ages since you wrote on here! Hope things are going well.

Hi Badstrad and Geranium, that smiley above looking tired and fed up is exactly how I've been feeling for a while....but that story is perhaps long enough for a separate thread rather than the slipping violin one

xx

I've been playing violin for about 7 years but have only had this problem for the last couple of months and I do have a shoulder rest. I will ask my teacher and see what they can suggest

Hello JoJo
Great to see you back ! Hope all is well / improving. Have missed your mailings++.


Until today I would have said my fiddle didn't slip with its shoulder rest, but found in lunchtime concert in the cathedral (!) that it slipped a little. I think is is about getting the shoulder rest in exactly the right spot, and maybe what clothes are worn---"uniform" collar in the way?

Could it be something as simple as not-such thick-jumpers/clothing now that the weather is 'warmer' ? I only ask because I do vary the height of my shoulder rest depending on whether I'm wearing a flimsy concert frock or my thickest woolly pully!

Hi violindreams (and Hi Jojo!)
When I started learning violin 2 years ago I got confused about whether or not the left hand should be involved in holding up the violin or not. There seemed to be conflicting opinion about it. I decided for me personally (and I know some people will disagree) I would like to be able to hold the violin up completely independently of my left hand, so I use one of those shoulder rests that hook over the back of your left shoulder. It solved my violin-slipping problem and I find it very comfortable. I can play for an hour with no stiffness at all and the violin does not budge!

This is absolutely right; it isn't really the job of the left hand to hold the violin in position. Later on, when you are using shifts into much higher positions, it will be made very much harder if you have become accustomed to letting the left hand hold the instrument in place for you. You are putting very good habits in place, katermorrisviolin.

Sorry Misterioso but I whole-heartedly 'disagree', you can say you have a preference and that is ok, but you 'cannot' absolutely say that you 'have' to 'not' hold the violin with the aid of the left hand and if that you do so you develop bad habits! I hold my violin with my collarbone, slight pressure/touch from my chin AND my left hand, just like many many other violinists do (who play with or without a shoulder rest), I shift ALL OVER the fingerboard up to the very end, fast or slow and I NEVER have a problem in doing so!
If you want not to use the involvement of the left hand in holding your violin that 'is fine', your choice, but don't say I or other people who use the involvement of the left hand have 'bad habits' for doing so!


It sounds like you have settled with the 'perfect' set up for you, which is an achievement as many violinists struggle for so long to find this (apart from a few lucky ones ), I also 'struggled' for nearly 2 years, I have since last year found my perfect set up too, but this was 4 years into learning violin!

Hi jojo, nice to see you back!

Sorry - I responded to this thread yesterday when I was short of time, and probably generalised a bit too much. Yes, the left hand does, I suppose, act as a guide / semi-support some of the time, but (my own personal view, since I am a small-handed person) in the very highest positions, I would not be able to support the violin using the left hand since the hand must come so far round and underneath the violin to reach where needed. This means that the thumb can occasionally leave the neck behind, and (for me) other methods of support must take over. Perhaps for this reason, I tend not to support the violin with the left hand. However, I may have used the left hand for support before a qualified, much-respected RSAMD tutor took my playing apart and re-structured it (very necessary since, looking back, I had some really bad teachers in my earlier years!) But obviously what is better / necessary for each individual player will vary. I am really glad you have found your own perfect set-up.

I don't think I was implying that a player using the left hand in this way was developing bad habits! - Rather that (in my view) another player was laying good foundations, and (again in my view) it's probably better to learn not to rely on the left hand like this, in part because I find that young players who do this find it harder to shift later on, often because they grip the neck too tightly. I know many other teachers who teach in the same way that I do, but (as with many things) one size does not fit all. If your own technique works for you, that's good, and no-one has any right (especially over the ether!) to argue otherwise.

Apologies again - I didn't mean to cause any grievances, so I will bow out of this thread now.

that's ok, I find it 'hard' sometimes with these type of discussions over the internet as it is so easy to mis-ineterpret one another or at time it is impossible to understand fully well how the other person is feeling.....
Ultimately whatever works for the player, we agree on that one x

I've done a lot of experimenting and personally i think it would be better to have the left hand totally free - but i also think that if it works well the other way round then thats great! Each to their own, but i can see profound benefits of having the left hand/arm free

But im not saying anyone is wrong, im not 'right' it's just my view on it which may well be completely inaccurate!

Saying all of the above though - they may not be comparible, as there is a different technique playing with or without a rest, so its not necessarily that one is better or worse, just that they are different and both can work as well as each other, if youre uing the appropriate technique for either one... (confusing!)

I found link below useful. I started off by 'fitting' the violin along my collar bone and then adjusting everything else accordingly. I like the idea of playing without a shoulder rest but now have mine set low and at 5 past 7 position and everything seems to be in a good place for playing and shifting now and I get a similar feeling to playing without a rest.
I don't 'hold' the violin with my left hand, but I do balance it with a very relaxed hand..

violinist in balance

I'll try that postition, thanks for all the advice

I'll try that postition, thanks for all the advice

Good luck and I hope you can find the right position for you> it is quite difficult to advise as, while violins are a similar shape, people are not. When I first started out playing again and bought a shoulder rest (for the first time as I had used a sponge and elastic band as a child) people almost all told me to set my shoulder rest up in a high position. I have had three shoulder rests in that time. After two years faffing about and being advised and never quite feeling right I though s*d this and tried without a shoulder rest and was quite comfortable with this, and can play that way. Now I have a low shoulder rest (high is worst for me as I do not have a long neck) set in the position mentioned, It seems to have been a good idea to start with the positioning of my violin on my collarbone then to work from there. Anyway, I think it's all a case of 'informed' trial and error and results may not be instant

Not necessarily related, of course. In fact, having a really rigid shoulder rest can transfer tension from the shoulder down the arm, through the wrist and into an iron grip on the neck of the instrument. It's not necessarily going to follow that having a strong grip on the instrument with the chin will free up a lovely relaxed left hand, no matter how much teachers and players may hope so.

I am in transition at the moment, and find that I spend a lot of orchestra time putting rest on, rest off, rest on, rest off. Different types of music seem to lend themselves to different equipment and practices. Personally I find I need that back and forth, and when I get onto teaching the elements of shifting I will make that part of the teaching so it doesn't have to be picked apart and learned later like I had to. I was not able to sustain my playing because of my neck and shoulder tension gripping the viola. (You may be interested to know that I was taught it was important to be able to hold the instrument with the chin at all times so the left hand was free, I actually got sent home to practice holding it up for several minutes without using my hands)

I went back and re-learned shifting as a co-ordination exercise involving the chin, so I'd play with the head totally off the chinrest and facing directly forwards, turn and press to support the instrument for the shift then get the head back off the chinrest once in the new position. Gradually I stopped having to bring my head central to remind myself not to press down when there was no need to do so. I now use the hand to support the viola when I'm in a position and a little chin pressure to keep it still while I downshift or do particularly wallowing vibrato.