singingmum
Jul 12 2012, 12:48 PM
Help!!! I'm not sure what to do as I haven't been in this position before. I have several private pupils (I am also a class music teacher in schools) and my pupils (parents) all pay in 4 weekly, invoiced, blocks. So far so good. However I have been teaching the daughter of a family who live in my street, who are neighbours of good friends of mine, who I have know vaguely for over 10 years. I took the daughter on for piano lessons last August and somehow or other they ended up paying me from August to December in one payment, around christmas. This year it has happened again - I have given the girl an invoice every 4 weeks, have reminded her to give it to her dad (she is in 4th year and I got her through Standard Grade on piano). I eventually was given a blank cheque and asked to pay myself from January to May. Then I got an email asking me not to use that cheque as 'something had happened to the account'. So I returned the cheque and issued a printed statement of lessons from January to May. I gave another reminder in June. I finished teaching the week before the term finished and asked the girl to let her dad know I would like payments all finalised by the end of term. I then emailed the dad on the last day of term to remind him that fees are due. I printed out another statement, this time from january - june, and my husband put it through their door on monday. I still haven't heard from them. I don't know what to do, I'm not in musicians union so don't have a leg to stand on legally I assume. They owe me for 14 lessons which I was relying on this summer. I am in overdraft with daily fees, my husband just had to pay almost ?1,000- to get the car repaired and through it's MOT yesterday and we still have to get his car repaired as it also failed it's MOT last week. We are totally strapped. I was relying on this money for me and the children this summer, I don't teach during the summer holiday and I am a supply teacher only 1 day a week. I am really stressed about this and I'm not sure how to handle it. I don't want to start a feud with people in the street, I'm not quite sure how to word my next letter. I have asked for payment to be made within 2 weeks. Sorry for this, maybe a bit over the top but I am panicking a bit about money and I wasn't sure where else to ask!
lou24
Jul 12 2012, 01:02 PM
Sorry hear about this situation, I guess everyone gets a problem payer now and then. I am afraid I don't have any pearls of wisdom for you but thought I would reply quickly to let you know that there is sure to be someone who can help you out on this site soon. Hang on in there. My only advice would be that in future this family pay up front or you get rid of them. Would they expect to get their shopping for the last 6 months without paying so why should music lessons be any different.
I hope someone can give you some proper advice soon.
ExpressYourself
Jul 12 2012, 01:21 PM
I don't think you need to be in the MU to have a leg to stand on. There's always citizen's advice.
But if I were you if you haven't heard anything by this Monday, put another letter through their door explaining in a business fashion that the fees outstanding need to be paid within 7 calender days or you will be forced to take legal action. If still no joy then tell them you have started court proceedings. I'm assuming your last letter didn't have a deadline. If it did then you can perhaps skip the first part and go straight to informing them of the court proceedings.
Here is a good website
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...tcy/DG_10023133If you like you can explain that their lack of payment has resulted in overdraft fees but really that information is private to you and it doesn't matter if you're rich or on the breadline, overdue debts must be paid.
This family's behaviour is totally unacceptable and I would personally refuse to teach the girl in September but if you do then you need the get money up front and not in arrears. No fee = no lesson
They know it's unacceptable. They're taking you for a ride and you don't have to put up with it. x
ma non troppo
Jul 12 2012, 01:27 PM
They are taking you for a ride, but in a way, you have let it get this far. I don't mean that unkindly, but I don't personally know any teacher who would allow a situation to get so far. Most charge in advance for lessons. I charge for ten lessons in advance and if they don't pay on time, there is no lesson. We are not a charity, and you have been far too nice. Be assertive - even if they pay up, I would then say no more lessons until they pay for ten in advance. Four weekly billing in advance is fine if people pay on time or have a direct debit set up, (this doesn't work for some teachers - I have never done it) but tell them that they have lost the priviledge of this.
Norway
Jul 12 2012, 02:34 PM
I'd withdraw the service with immediate effect and get advice from the CAB as they will be able to give you all the options and will reduce your anxiety level. It's business, not personal - don't worry about what the other people on the street think - it's not their concern. I hope the parents pay up. In future, I would avoid teaching friends and neighbours, as they all too often want something for nothing! I've had similar experiences in a different context (selling cakes for charity) and there really are some dishonourable people out there - you really need to defend yourself with some hard and fast rules.
chraze1
Jul 12 2012, 03:01 PM
I can really feel your stress reading your post. I'm really sorry for your situation.
Is there any possibility that they could be away on holiday and they haven't received the letter your husband posted?
I just feel its particularly rude especially when you have known them for such a long time.
What is their lifestyle like, do you have reason to believe they are struggling financially?
I have a parent forwhom money is not an issue and they are actually pretty scatterbrained, they say to me, just tell me what i've to pay and when and they always do, but it seems like they don't keep on top of payments because it doesnt appear to be a problem.
I suppose I'm trying to think your situation through as it is so extreme.
I would letter every parent you have, including the one you have posted about, include terms and conditions and word your letter to say in light of an exceptionally unpleasant situation regarding unpaid fees, you have to make sure yours t&c's are signed and up to date to avoid this ever happening again. If the word is out between all the parents that someone hasn't been paying, I would like to think the embarassment of it would be enoughto make them cough up!
Good luck and please let us know the outcome!
Aquarelle
Jul 12 2012, 03:10 PM
On my invoices I have the date by which lessons must be paid for (in advance) and a second date around 2 or 3 weeks later depending on the term, stating that if I have not received payment by that date lessons will cease until paid for.
So far no one has fallen foul of the second date - though I have had to remind a couple. But I am determined to enforce the rule should it happen. If a child were to turn up unaccompanied for a lesson after the "pay by" date I would keep them until the end of the lesson to be sure they are not wandering around un supervised but they would not get any tuition.
I don't know if this idea would help you in future.
Jane S
Jul 12 2012, 03:38 PM
All good advice from the previous posters. Definitely follow up with a letter giving them a deadline to pay, or else! You can issue proceedings through the County Court. You don't need to be represented, but the Clerk of the Court can explain the procedure to you. I would have no hesitation following such a large bill up in court. Just make sure you can back up everything with copies of letters, schedules etc.
They are stealing from you. I had a horrendous family, who managed to not pay for two months, so I got rid of them, once they'd paid up. Draw up some terms and conditions, about payments, cancellations and so on, then you really have to stick to them. I had a bit of a sticky time, with one really good student who thought she knew my T&Cs better than I did, and she went to the extent of giving notice. I calmed her down, and she is back on track, but she is very stressed out for health reasons. You have to look upon this as being your job and income, not pin money. Do not feel embarrassed to ask for what is owed to you.
Personally, I would not take them back in September, unless you feel you want to or need to, as you can bet your bottom dollar they will mess you around again.
Czerny
Jul 12 2012, 03:47 PM
I think first of all you have to divorce your worries about MOT payments and overdrafts from the fact that you are owed outstanding fees. Your financial concerns are clearly contributing to your stress - understandably so - but are essentially irrelevant to this situation.
As others have said, you do not have to belong to the MU or ISM to have the right to be paid for a service that you have provided. I would write a very clear letter to the parent outlining what is owed and when you expect to receive payment (this is important), but do not mention your own financial situation as the family involved does not need to know this, nor do they have any right to be party to this information. It also - perhaps unfairly - weakens your position by making you look less business-like.
If this fails, try the CAB, or join the MU / ISM as they offer good advice. Ultimately your best course of action may be to pursue the fee through the small claims court which is quite simple and not too expensive. If you think you may have to resort to this, start collecting all evidence of monies owed (invoices, previous correspondence, etc.).
Good luck!
Norway
Jul 12 2012, 03:52 PM
Make sure that when sending any letters, you get them signed for - then they can't say that they didn't receive them (and it's pretty obvious that you are preparing evidence for possible court action).
Czerny
Jul 12 2012, 04:52 PM
QUOTE(Norway @ Jul 12 2012, 04:52 PM)

Make sure that when sending any letters, you get them signed for - then they can't say that they didn't receive them (and it's pretty obvious that you are preparing evidence for possible court action).
Good point.
miffy
Jul 12 2012, 06:19 PM
Send a signed delivery letter giving them x amount of days for you to receive payment (7 or 14) and that you will take legal action in small claims if you haven't received it by then. It's perfectly legal and valid for you to do that with or without the MU, ISM or a contract and you have all the paperwork to prove what you do. Then wait 4 days further before you actually start the claim. I had a difficult parent who purposely sent the cheque 2 days late hoping I'd already paid to start a small claim - I hadn't, I figured she'd do this
ma non troppo
Jul 12 2012, 07:04 PM
Here's another thing - don't worry what other people will think. I have only had one payment issue, years ago (never again!) when I stopped the lessons because they hadn't paid, and it was very late. There was also an issue that the parent said the child (aged 17) was now paying for the lessons - I think not! I was worried about what two other families who knew these people concerned would think when they found out. Actually, both mothers from these families approached me and told me they were pretty disgusted with the family concerned -they had tried to bad mouth me but it had back-fired on them. People generally see what is right and what is wrong, so don't worry.
miffy
Jul 12 2012, 07:06 PM
QUOTE(ma non troppo @ Jul 12 2012, 08:04 PM)

Here's another thing - don't worry what other people will think. I have only had one payment issue, years ago (never again!) when I stopped the lessons because they hadn't paid, and it was very late. There was also an issue that the parent said the child (aged 17) was now paying for the lessons - I think not! I was worried about what two other families who knew these people concerned would think when they found out. Actually, both mothers from these families approached me and told me they were pretty disgusted with the family concerned -they had tried to bad mouth me but it had back-fired on them. People generally see what is right and what is wrong, so don't worry.
Pixie*Porsche
Jul 12 2012, 08:17 PM
File a court summons.
magicfingers
Jul 12 2012, 08:20 PM
Jane S has given you good advice.
You need to write a friendly but firm letter stating that you expect payment within 7 days for the outstanding lessons. If no response then you write a firm letter stating that you will no alternative but to enforce legal action in your ***** County Court without further notice from yourself if payment is not received within 7 days of the date of the letter.
This may yield results.
On each letter write 'hand delivered'. They may argue all they want in court about not receiving any letter but the judge isn't stupid and heard it all before. And they live in your street. It's also good they paid you via cheque as there is a history.
If not then you will have to instigate proceedings in your court and,unfortunately, it will cost you.
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcomehttp://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBen...money/DG_195639You can google the rest.
Miffy gives good advice about waiting a few days before action.
If it goes to court you are in for a long wait I'm afraid but i would fight all the way.
I'm a member of the MU and what happens with the MU is this.
You send a letter to the parents. No response? You refer to the MU. The MU write a letter. No response? After a few more letters it's referred to their legal official. No response? Court.
It all depends on how much they don't mind having a CCJ against them!
Edit: Just read your post again. Do not speak to them and only correspond via letter. I would imagine they would be very uncomfortable seeing you anyway unless they have no shame. If they tittle-tattle to other neighbours rise above it and say it is a professional matter that has nothing to do with them ie other neighbours.
LizzieT
Jul 13 2012, 07:17 AM
Post deleted
andante
Jul 13 2012, 07:20 AM
As someone who has worked in credit control the heavy handed approach that is outlined above is far less likely to be effective than working out a payment plan. You want your money and you want it now, but basically you want your money. I would contact them and say you realise tht they probably haven't paid as they are struggling for cash (That comment alone embarrases some people into paying) and that if it eases the situation for them you are prepared to let them pay half this week, and half in a fortnight. (Or a quarter each week for a month if that is easier for them.) Tell them that you rely on your income from teaching to meet your own commitments (No need to go into any more detail than that) and that you are prepared to try to help if they are unable to pay the whole invoice at once, but that you will be taking legal action if you don't receive something by next week.
The above posters are right that you should not let it go so long. Next time someone is late paying send a message immediately that payment is needed before any further lessons are given. You can soften this by saying that you are sure it is an oversight on behalf, but you have had your fingers burnt in the past by letting arrears build up and no longer allow that to happen.
barry-clari
Jul 13 2012, 07:53 AM
1) Follow the first section of andante's post.
2) If no joy, go to the Citizen's Advice Bureau.
3) If no joy with 1) or 2), seek legal advice.
Ayshah
Jul 13 2012, 08:46 AM
Lots of very good advice, some of which I agree with others not so sure. Doorstepping at someones house can be very confrontational and have its own legal ramifications. Stick to hand delivering or registered mail. Clearly you are in need of the money and have reached last resort. In time you will learn that you have to account for slow/late payers in your budget. Or quite simply dont allow it.
I have been in this situation - non-paying person didnt live on the same street. After repeated verbal and mail requests produced no joy, I refused to have child back, sent Red invoice - marked Urgent/Overdue - asking for payment within 7 days enclosing an sae and a note saying I was disappointed they were not taking it seriously and I could not afford to let the matter drop. No joy. I sent another one informing them that the matter was going to court and a CCJ may affect their future credit rating and lo and behold I received a chx by return. Fortunately it didnt bounce. After 10 years of home tuition, I am now a dragon with payments and wont befriend any parent in case things become "cloudy". I wont tolerate it unless they call and come to an arrangment and even then I suggest that they stop the lessons and rethink their family budget rather than struggle to pay me.
The CAB is absolutely choc a bloc at the moment and it takes weeks to get a 10 min appointment, or you have to be outside at least two hours before the door opens and be prepared to wait for another 4 hours. Most of the information you need is now available online and you CAN progress it yourself.
Join a Union and dont ever let it build up like that again. Just refuse to have the child back until the bill is paid. Its strictly Business you clearly NEED the fees, its not a hobby.
You mention that the parents said the child is paying for the lessons, this is possible as two of my daughters did this. So you could have asked the child directly in particular if she could handle the commitment and possibly arranged that s/he paid you cash on arrival per lesson, as my daughters found this was the best way to handle the new responsibility of paying for their own tuition.
Good Luck
AnnC
Jul 13 2012, 11:14 AM
It doesn't matter that the child is paying for the lessons - the ultimate responsibility is with the parent because a child is not legally old enough to enter into a contract. The contract - and contract is what it is, it doesn't have to be in writing to be enforcable - is between you and the parent. I find that writing, allowing 14 days to settle in full, failing which a summons will be issued in the **** County Court, without further reference to them, produces a result 9 times out of 10. I point out that this will incur them in further costs (if you win they have to pay your costs, too), and interest under the 1984 County Court Act, section 69, also that judgement may affect their ability to obtain credit in the future. Most people will settle out of court.
You don't have to be a member of a union to do this - it's quite simple.
If a cheque bounces you sue in the same way on grounds of a dishonoured cheque.
miffy
Jul 13 2012, 11:48 AM
Yes, you cannot have a contract with a minor, so it will do them no good to try going down that route, especially as you didn't begin lessons under those terms.
Keep it simple with the court action warning letter, moving onto small claims if they don't pay up. I'd certainly stay away from personal contact, especially camping out on the doorstep - I think only bailiffs are allowed to do that!
magicfingers
Jul 13 2012, 12:12 PM
CAB is a waste of time.
"Doorstepping at someones house can be very confrontational and have its own legal ramifications."
Absolutely. Everything must be done via letter and I wouldn't even advise talking to them on the phone.
As an aside here is what is happening to me with the parent-from h*ell. It has got to be the worse case I have ever encountered.
Summary: Notice period. Parent didn't pay Jan 2011...yes you have read this date right. Referred to MU. Parent had them on a string saying she would pay etc.
Court: Parent ignored all court correspondence. I instructed the baliffs. Parent asked for judgment to be set aside.
First court hearing. Judge had her weighed up but couldn't do anything as she had to have her say so ordered another court hearing in March 2012!!!! Over a year since payment due.
Very lenient Judge kindly allowed her to pay ?4 per week as the Judge believed her sob story.
Paid for a while then nothing. She still owes me money but the court states the CCJ has been set aside and I have to pay the Court again ...?100 for baliffs!!!!!...to recover the remaining money.
This woman ( who told lots of porkies in court) really knows how to play the system.
Both hearings were attended by myself and an MU legal official.
But this woman is a one off and the lowest of the low. The vast majority of people pay up.
linda.ff
Jul 13 2012, 12:13 PM
QUOTE(AnnC @ Jul 13 2012, 12:14 PM)

It doesn't matter that the child is paying for the lessons - the ultimate responsibility is with the parent because a child is not legally old enough to enter into a contract. The contract - and contract is what it is, it doesn't have to be in writing to be enforcable - is between you and the parent. I find that writing, allowing 14 days to settle in full, failing which a summons will be issued in the **** County Court, without further reference to them, produces a result 9 times out of 10. I point out that this will incur them in further costs (if you win they have to pay your costs, too), and interest under the 1984 County Court Act, section 69, also that judgement may affect their ability to obtain credit in the future. Most people will settle out of court.
You don't have to be a member of a union to do this - it's quite simple.
If a cheque bounces you sue in the same way on grounds of a dishonoured cheque.
If they ignore the letter, write it on a postcard so the postman can see it.
If they ignore the postcard, write it on a postcard and misaddress it to their neighbours
Czerny
Jul 13 2012, 12:16 PM
QUOTE(linda.ff @ Jul 13 2012, 01:13 PM)

If they ignore the letter, write it on a postcard so the postman can see it.
If they ignore the postcard, write it on a postcard and misaddress it to their neighbours

Crikey, I hope I never get on the wrong side of you, Linda!
magicfingers
Jul 13 2012, 12:18 PM
[quote name='linda.ff' date='Jul 13 2012, 01:13 PM' post='1159633']
[/quote]
If they ignore the letter, write it on a postcard so the postman can see it.
If they ignore the postcard, write it on a postcard and misaddress it to their neighbours

[/quote]
Is this meant to be funny?
Very bad advice. I can see the Judge taking a very dim point of view.
AnnC
Jul 13 2012, 12:25 PM
Forgot to say keep a copy of all letters as you would need to send copies to the court if you take proceedings. And don't contact them after proceedings. It's called "harrassment of the debtor" and is a criminal offence.
magicfingers
Jul 13 2012, 12:33 PM
QUOTE(AnnC @ Jul 13 2012, 01:25 PM)

Forgot to say keep a copy of all letters as you would need to send copies to the court if you take proceedings. And don't contact them after proceedings. It's called "harrassment of the debtor" and is a criminal offence.

Yes. The system is very much in favour of the debtor. The claimant has to do all the hard work.
Cyrilla
Jul 13 2012, 12:40 PM
miffy
Jul 13 2012, 12:52 PM
[quote name='magicfingers' date='Jul 13 2012, 01:18 PM' post='1159635']
[quote name='linda.ff' date='Jul 13 2012, 01:13 PM' post='1159633']
[/quote]
If they ignore the letter, write it on a postcard so the postman can see it.
If they ignore the postcard, write it on a postcard and misaddress it to their neighbours

[/quote]
Is this meant to be funny?
Very bad advice. I can see the Judge taking a very dim point of view.
[/quote]
This is a favourite bailiff trick.
Tempting..but not a good idea
magicfingers
Jul 13 2012, 01:09 PM
QUOTE(Cyrilla @ Jul 13 2012, 01:40 PM)

Hi
Yes you should have seen her antics in court. The first judge gave her a really hard time and she was shouting at him, but the second judge ( female) was so lenient with her it was incredible. I remember the judge saying to her ' It's alright,Darling, just calm down.
The MU official wasn't surprised about the order for ?4 per week and I believe it's quite common. Then they don't pay so you might as well give up!
But this woman knows how to play the game. I reckon she has been in this position on numerous occasions.
But you just have to move on.
linda.ff
Jul 13 2012, 01:19 PM
QUOTE(Czerny @ Jul 13 2012, 01:16 PM)

QUOTE(linda.ff @ Jul 13 2012, 01:13 PM)

If they ignore the letter, write it on a postcard so the postman can see it.
If they ignore the postcard, write it on a postcard and misaddress it to their neighbours

Crikey, I hope I never get on the wrong side of you, Linda!

I'm a very forgiving person in RL

[quote name='magicfingers' date='Jul 13 2012, 01:18 PM' post='1159635']
[quote name='linda.ff' date='Jul 13 2012, 01:13 PM' post='1159633']
[/quote]
If they ignore the letter, write it on a postcard so the postman can see it.
If they ignore the postcard, write it on a postcard and misaddress it to their neighbours

[/quote]
Is this meant to be funny?
Very bad advice. I can see the Judge taking a very dim point of view.
[/quote]
Hence the
Norway
Jul 13 2012, 01:21 PM
I'm afraid that (rightly or wrongly) I would be ringing my music teaching network friends to ensure that the parents can't just move on and do the same to any of them.
maggiemay
Jul 13 2012, 02:02 PM
Yes !
People who play the system in this way should carry a health warning.
singingmum
Jul 13 2012, 04:28 PM
thanks so much for all the replies and advice. I was really feeling at the end of my tether yesterday, thus my emotional post, thanks for all the help.
The family, I think, is having a bit of a struggle -from what I've heard- with money. I'm not quite sure how I ended up letting them away with paying for 2 terms at christmas. I think it's because the girl comes on her own and I relied on her to relay information to her dad, and he would usually respond to an email. Life is so busy and I have other teaching commitments, as well as a young family.. I've not had any problems like this before, I do need to join a union. I've not spoken to him directly. I have sent home the invoices with the daughter. I emailed at the end of term to remind them that outstanding fees were due. I asked for payment to be made within 2 weeks, along with a statement, and it was hand delivered on monday. I put in the letter that they should contact me if there are any issues regarding payment, to organise a payment schedule. So the offer is there for him to pay in instalments. At the end of the two weeks I'll hand deliver another letter saying I am suspending the daughter's lessons pending payment. I'll have to say that if the fees, or part of, has not been paid within another 7 days I will be seeking legal advice regarding recovering the fees. Something like that anyway. In the meantime I need to organise my teaching timetable for next term and don't know whether to include this girl or not, should I include her dad in the email around all the parents about day/time of lessons? Then I could put on his that the lessons are suspended pending payment and that there are others on my waiting list who could take the place. What do you all think? I need to email round people while I have time, I need to rearrange some pupils anyway as I have another day in school to accommodate, the slot this girl usually takes could easily go to someone else (who always pays on time!).
Looking forward to advice re next step.
Dugazon
Jul 13 2012, 05:23 PM
QUOTE(singingmum @ Jul 13 2012, 05:28 PM)

At the end of the two weeks I'll hand deliver another letter saying I am suspending the daughter's lessons pending payment. I'll have to say that if the fees, or part of, has not been paid within another 7 days I will be seeking legal advice regarding recovering the fees. Something like that anyway. In the meantime I need to organise my teaching timetable for next term and don't know whether to include this girl or not, should I include her dad in the email around all the parents about day/time of lessons? Then I could put on his that the lessons are suspended pending payment and that there are others on my waiting list who could take the place. What do you all think?
Honestly? You're too nice.
Why on earth would you consider teaching the girl even ONE more lesson when so much money is owed?
With all due respect that it's not the student's fault if the parents don't pay, and we don't want to punish them for what their parents do, but it is right what others already said: You let it escalate (the parents of course being in the wrong not to pay you, but that's not the point).
I suspend lessons IMMEDIATELY if only one payment is owed and people get funny about it. They can talk to me if they're in financial trouble, and we can sort something out (shorter lessons, lower frequency of lessons etc), but why people would keep on putting in hours without any form of payment/deposit/security is quite honestly beyond me.
I really have a lot of sympathy for your situation, don't get me wrong - there are people out there who don't give a toss and are simply horrible. BUT I honestly think that if you try to stay on good terms with people because a) they are neighbours or b) because you're desperate for business and therefore uneasy with confrontation, you'll get yourself into financial trouble. I would try to get the money owed and then forget about it - I would not consider teaching them again, because even if they DO pay, the problem is likely to resurface again at some point. If they are in trouble at the moment and had any form of decency, they would have tried to talk to you and find a solution. It doesn't matter if they're embarrassed about their money problems (which I understand, but again, that's not the point and has nothing to do with your business relationship) - that's simply not a decent way to behave, end of.
Just say no and learn your lesson for the future (sorry if I'm a bit blunt)!
magicfingers
Jul 13 2012, 05:29 PM
QUOTE(singingmum @ Jul 13 2012, 05:28 PM)

thanks so much for all the replies and advice. I was really feeling at the end of my tether yesterday, thus my emotional post, thanks for all the help.
The family, I think, is having a bit of a struggle -from what I've heard- with money. I'm not quite sure how I ended up letting them away with paying for 2 terms at christmas. I think it's because the girl comes on her own and I relied on her to relay information to her dad, and he would usually respond to an email. Life is so busy and I have other teaching commitments, as well as a young family.. I've not had any problems like this before, I do need to join a union. I've not spoken to him directly. I have sent home the invoices with the daughter. I emailed at the end of term to remind them that outstanding fees were due. I asked for payment to be made within 2 weeks, along with a statement, and it was hand delivered on monday. I put in the letter that they should contact me if there are any issues regarding payment, to organise a payment schedule. So the offer is there for him to pay in instalments. At the end of the two weeks I'll hand deliver another letter saying I am suspending the daughter's lessons pending payment. I'll have to say that if the fees, or part of, has not been paid within another 7 days I will be seeking legal advice regarding recovering the fees. Something like that anyway. In the meantime I need to organise my teaching timetable for next term and don't know whether to include this girl or not, should I include her dad in the email around all the parents about day/time of lessons? Then I could put on his that the lessons are suspended pending payment and that there are others on my waiting list who could take the place. What do you all think? I need to email round people while I have time, I need to rearrange some pupils anyway as I have another day in school to accommodate, the slot this girl usually takes could easily go to someone else (who always pays on time!).
Looking forward to advice re next step.
You are a big softie! And I didn't think you were being too emotional.
You are always going to get the one bad egg and you need to be prepared.
It really doesn't matter to you nor is it any of your business that the family have or appear to have financial difficulties. Never rely on pupils relaying information to parents. Avoid email -perhaps other teachers will disagree -but in matters like this email is too easy for the parents.
And why have you not spoken to him face to face? It's too late now with this parent, but in future make sure you always speak face to face with regards to money.
I don't think they will be bothered whether you say you are terminating future lessons until payment is made. Again you are being too soft. Forget it.
Your next letter should be stating you will start legal proceedings via local court if payment is not received within 7 days. NOT SEEKING LEGAL ADVICE. As to date he has not responded to your previous letter? There is your answer. But allow him the 14 days.
Do not include the girl in your timetable. You have not been paid so why organise your timetable to include her? Is he interested in the fact you have a waiting list? No he is not!
Your slot goes to someone else. Someone else who will pay you.
I may sound hard but I,and lots of other teachers on here, have been given the runaround once too often.
Be strong and you have us!
Ayshah
Jul 13 2012, 06:11 PM
Not another lesson! Absolutely not one! Remove the child from your list and do not teach this family again , they are either in serious financial difficulties which means they cant afford you or/and have bad manners and are totally disrespecting your profession. Outrageous not to contact you! grrr!
You have a replacement so you dont need this pupil on your list. Let the parents deal with the fall out of her stopping lessons.
Your next letter is simply to inform the parents that you WILL commence procedings for the recovery of the sums owed if the amounts are not paid in full within 7 days, incuded the para on CCJ affecting their future credit standing and that they will have to pay your court costs. You have given more than enough notice.
IT IS BUSINESS, so be formal and write your letter with enclosed invoice and snail mail it recorded.
*sigh* Please learn from this and never let it happen again. It doesnt matter how good the student is or whether you like them/the parents.
dotted quaver
Jul 13 2012, 07:12 PM
I agree with the advice given by others. Don't worry about upsetting the neighbours. I don't think for one moment this family are going to admit to the neighbours they owe you the best part of ?200 or whatever you fee is. I hope they pay up quickly. Under no circumstances would I teach this girl again. You have to make a stand on this and from my experience, it only needed to be done once, somehow word gets round!
As it's nearly a week since you sent your letter, I would send them a reminder telling them you will instigate court proceedings if the fee is not paid in full within 7 days, on or before Monday 23rd July. I would also request cash, in case they try to get out of this by giving you another cheque. Have they any holidays planned?
Norway
Jul 13 2012, 07:23 PM
Definitely stop teaching the girl immediately and fill the slot! In fact, ring whoever it is on your waiting list now and offer it to them starting from the coming week - there you go - job done - then the family can't can whine their way back in!
ma non troppo
Jul 13 2012, 07:26 PM
Absoultely agree with the other people saying not one more lesson - especially as you have a waiting list. Make sure you remember that as a private teacher, you are a business person, not a charity. That's why so many great musicians and teachers can't earn a living from private teaching - they don't have the business head for it. You need to toughen up, Singing Mum! Once you start being assertive with people, you may be surprised at the reactions - it may not be what you think, and it makes your life FAR easier. I have far fewer problems with clients nowadays (in my forties) than I did when I first started out in my twenties. The reason is becausde they know I don't take any ****.
As other people have said, you have us all to off load to, so use us!
Susie
Jul 13 2012, 08:13 PM
I endorse what others have said - I haven't been in this position myself with regard to fees, but I have had to put my foot down firmly (but diplomatically) this week on another matter, and I feel less stressed as a result of taking positive action rather than vacillating about the situation.
Bagpuss
Jul 13 2012, 09:29 PM
Yep - get out NOW.
Trust me, you will feel a whole lot better just by removing the pupil from your list.
Got-a-Variety-of-T-shirts-Bag x
Jane S
Jul 14 2012, 07:50 AM
I remember my horrendous family from a while back. They were perfectly charming, didn't understand written English, even though they run two shops, and were also completely shameless. Once I received payment I terminated lessons. My attitude now, is this is my job. I love doing it, and want to give value for money, but it is my living. I completely agree with the statement that music teachers are not charities.
I do take responsibility for letting them get away with it, and feeling a bit awkward about money, but not now. People get contracts with clear T&Cs on the back. My cancellation policy is also spelled out as well. A friend, who runs her own very successful language company, has become very cynical about people and money! I also agree with being wary about befriending too, as they can lead to awkwardness. I tend to get on well with women my own age who are students, but I also do my best to be friendly with everyone else too.
violinlove
Jul 14 2012, 10:22 AM
QUOTE(Jane S @ Jul 14 2012, 09:50 AM)

I remember my horrendous family from a while back. They were perfectly charming, didn't understand written English, even though they run two shops, and were also completely shameless. Once I received payment I terminated lessons. My attitude now, is this is my job. I love doing it, and want to give value for money, but it is my living. I completely agree with the statement that music teachers are not charities.
Absolutely right. I have learnt to toughen up too in the last couple of years since I have been teaching privately as my main income. I let a mother bully me into giving the child a half hour piano lesson every other week (although the child had initially started weekly). The mother said it was the child's free time and she didn't want to come every week. Anyway, I let her get away with it because I wasn't firm enough about the issue and it meant for a whole year I had a half hour slot every other week that was unusable for other pupils. She turned up to the last piano lesson of this year with the child, but without the piano books and said she was stopping because it was the child's free time and she didn't want to play anymore. Fair enough and a great relief all round as far as I am concerned and I won't be doing that again - young pupils have a half hour slot every week or they don't come at all. End of.
I have another pupil whose mother is a bit of a handful. She is an obviously intelligent woman who runs her own business but when it came to understanding my newly introduced T and Cs last year, she suddenly seemed unable to grasp it and had to have it explained 3 or 4 times. She also insisted on counting the weeks on the calendar to make sure that lessons were actually scheduled for 40 weeks and that I wasn't conning her out of a couple of weeks. She said she couldn't understand why she had to pay for 4 lessons a month over 10 months when some months only had 3 weeks in them... totally disregarding the fact that some months have 5 weeks. She then wanted to know why she couldn't count up the weeks each month and pay X times 3 or X times 4 or X times 5 and thought that I should invoice all pupils accordingly. I said no and explained that it would depend on what day of the week the pupil had their lesson on as sometimes there were 5 Wednesdays but only 4 Thursdays or Fridays for example. Anyway, after a whole load of rigamarole of her claiming she didn't understand she finally accepted the T and Cs and promptly booked a dentist's appointment for the child during his piano lesson time the next week and wanted a refund which she did not get, although the boy had his lesson rescheduled at my convenience.
At the end of June last year, this same mother said she didn't know if the boy would continue in the Autumn because he didn't like making mistakes and being corrected. So I said, well let me know. Then I kept his slot open in case he wanted to come back....... I heard nothing at all until the middle of October and then he wanted to come back - so he started again mid-October. This meant he had missed 6 weeks of lessons (which were not paid for). He has been really keen all year and last week was talking about wanting a couple of lessons in the summer (which are optional for all pupils but non-compulsory).
The last lesson of term came round and suddenly the mother said she doesn't think he wants to continue in the Autumn and she certainly doesn't want him having summer lessons (she also fails to grasp the idea that there is no pressure to come but that many children do want to have a lesson to keep them on track now and then!) So this time, having learned from my mistake last year I said to her that she had to let me know if he wanted to return at the latest one week before the school term begins and that if I have not heard from her I will assume he does not want to continue and his slot will be given to one of the people on the waiting list. I could tell by her face she was furious - but that's the way it is. Why should I wait 6 weeks for them to decide that he wants to return and lose 6 weeks of money keeping a slot open when there are people waiting to begin? It will be interesting to see what happens but I am not bothered one way or the other. The pupil is a good pupil who is fun to teach but there are plenty of others who are similar whose parents accept the T and Cs and turn up at the beginning of the school year for their lessons with their first month's fee, not several weeks later at their convenience!
Sorry, this ended up a little off-topic and turned into a long rant... but really my point for the original poster was that we all make mistakes and we learn from them so that there isn't a repeat performance of the same issue.
Norway
Jul 14 2012, 01:16 PM
Good for you Violinlove! Most of my parents are great but I have 2 frankly weird/pushy ones and yes, it's amazing how the whole world (music teachers included) are expected to revolve around their child's social life! I identify these very early on, and work towards managing them out at the earliest available opportunity (moved one on recently, one to go!). My families work together for concerts, ensembles, trips and so on, and so selfish people are going to be a nuisance not only to me but also to all the other pupils and parents.
Jane S
Jul 14 2012, 04:56 PM
It's not really off topic, it is more a variation on a theme Violinlove! You get some control freaks out there, and they love to throw their weight around. They like to think that they have one over on you all the time. My particular favourite from last year was a mother who had a habit of turning up for lessons, regardless of whether she had booked or paid for them. The last time, for a slot she hadn't paid for, she proceeded to dock ?5 out of my ?15 fee as I had to go to a doctor's appointment. I wasn't going to argue you with her, but over the phone when she refused to cough up, I told her not to bother coming back. She had a habit of rearranging lessons, and once when I wasn't in for one she had cancelled, she proceeded to demand that my husband handed over my diary. he didn't I'm glad to say, but let's say she was standing on her dignity all the time.
Teaching is my income. When it comes to cancellations, I always do my best to reschedule, as I want students to have the lessons they've paid for, but I won't do it over to another term, as it eats into income.
RoseRodent
Jul 16 2012, 12:46 PM
I couldn't honestly manage to read everything so sorry if this is a repeat but I didn't see it in a skim through. If you might use the option to pursue any kind of legal action you must terminate the lessons or start getting money upfront for them. Why? Because the law will not protect you from any hole you have dug for yourself. You have a very good chance in small claims of getting the money for fees owed to date, but if you carry on giving lessons you haven't been paid for then the law says you then failed to "vigorously pursue" the money, so you in essence forgave it or at least forgave the urgency of it and will have increased difficulty in enforcing your terms if you didn't stick to them - both parties to a contract are expected to stick to it, if the contract says you expect payment monthly you have as much obligation to try to collect as the parent has to offer payment. If they didn't pay you in January, didn't pay you in Febrauary, didn't pay you in March then you are expected to terminate and pursue the money for Jan-Mar. The court will start to have little sympathy for you racking up April's fees too. To keep your legal options open, cut off the line of credit now.