Hello,can anybody suggest me some good and effective ways for practising scales and arpeggios for violin?Thank you very much.

May I enquire what 'grade' you're practising for or are you playing scales for the intonation and control?

Gred5.Yes,for intonation and control.

A good book for scales is Paul Harris Improve Your Scales Grade 5. It's a really good book. It gives different exercises and you can make your own compositions in each key.

I'm pretty much a beginner myself and all I have is the Part 1 scales (grade 1-5). So to make things more interesting (usually harder!) I try to play scales in ways different from the instructions.

For example, I play them staccato, sometimes heavily (nearer the frog) or lightly (half way along the bow). Another one is: play the tonic note tenuto, whole bow, then staccato to the next tonic, also tenuto (trying not to have the bow bouncing around when I land on it). Sometimes I try fast: one bow per octave and other times slow, one bow per note so I can really get to the intonation while watching the bow. (I'm still at that stage I'm afraid).

Then decoration. Two examples on G maj: G-A-B A-B-C B-C-D etc. (string changing as well)
Then detache: G-G-G-G-G-A-B-C-D-D-D-D-D-E-F#-D-G- - -

Idon't specially like scales but it breaks the tedium. Slow scales seem the way to good intonation in my case. Maybe arpeggios too. Recent advice here has already helped toward niftier position changing under slurs without shaking violin and bow all over the place!

Maybe it's time I bought the Paul Harris book!!

Sorry if I've carried on a bit but hope this may yield something of interest to you.

M

But HOW (HOW, HOW, HOW!!!) do you know whether you have done them/these exercises correctly? Do you ever check the first attempt against a tuner (first before proceeding further) for example for 100% correct intonation??? OR, do yo just rely on your ears, hoping for say, 90% accuracy?

What if you have only have a reasonably good sense of but not perfect pitch? (Teacher seems to expect the ears to develop as you go along but surely they don't unless she is doing Kodaly or something like that every week or has already been singing for many years like me!) My daughter expects me to hear her (from the kitchen where I'm working or otherwise, struggling with her little brother!). She relied on my ears - scary... Scary, I tell you, because if I get it wrong, she will tell her teacher, it wasn't her fault!

I sometimes practice my scales in rhythms... dotted rhythms, or I make up my own little rhythm. Same goes to arpeggios... mind you, don't do this fast.

As for tuning, I have perfect pitch myself, but maybe you should just remember the distance between your fingers (eg. together, apart, together, apart...?) Or maybe the rhythm thing will work too.

For tuning, good relative pitch is all that is needed. This will develop and improve with experience.

Listen carefully for the intervals of a tone and/or semitone. In time your ear will learn to recognise them quickly, and the smallest slip in intonation. Intonation issues are not confined to anyone who is learning, intonation is something all string players battle with from time to time - from the beginner to the seasoned pro, none of us are immune.

Making up your own rhythms for playing scales is very useful, especially for accuracy of shifting as a certain rhythm many mean having to shift very quickly in some cases or very slowly in others.

Do make sure you give adequate practise to slurred scales - this is often an area which gets glossed over. Yes, shifting in slurred scales is difficult, but only by lots of practise will you learn to achieve a good shift with minimum audible glissando.

Well it's something that develops over time. My teacher says i'm lucky because i've always been able to play in tune and if ever i am slightly flat or sharp i can hear it and adjust accordingly.

Also if you play an A on the G string then you're open A string will ring. The same goes for playing an E on the D string - i.e open E string should ring.

Well it's something that develops over time. My teacher says i'm lucky because i've always been able to play in tune and if ever i am slightly flat or sharp i can hear it and adjust accordingly.

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Yeah, she knows all right. I discovered THAT only recently when I followed her to a few of her lessons. He likes her to think for herself. He asked her and she could tell when she'OK/a bit too flat/a bit too sharp... but at home, she behaves like a teenager... rush, rush, rush! Well, if she rushes so much, how come she takes a whole hour to practise... I don't get it. I think it's dangerous to rush because she's not really listening to her scales! But then she's only 8 so I forgive her for the moment. She claims she only rushes on scales and arpeggios as they are "boring!"

I think if she's doing an hour's practice at 8 then she's pretty dedicated and must be enjoying it, which is half the battle! I'm sure all the rest will come with time.

Actually, Sarah, she is violin-mad! We didn't time her but I guess, she started about 20 mins in the 1st term, went up to a total of 40mins or 1 hr somewhere in the 2nd term (split twice a day), and then now, in the 3rd term, I guess, a total of 2 hrs a day (1 hour be4 school and 1 after school).

BUT now that her karate's grading test is coming up, she's gone back to a total of 1.5hrs a day, I suspect, always split into 2 sessions. She does not practise much on Wed except 0.5hr for scales only (nothing more) as it's her karate day. She wants to do her best for her karate.

I try to tell her to take it easy all the time!!! When her head told me she's exceptionally gifted and talented (to finish 3 grades in 8 months), I HAD to and DID say - and I'm not being British-style deprecating here but - Just ASK her how much she practises, madam! It's sheer hard work.

Come to think abt it, I think I realise now WHY she takes such a long time! It's because her practice is [I]never time-bound. It's TASK-ORIENTED. She has a list of small tasks and she has to master them one by one by the end of the term in her opinion. Yes! She takes a long time bec the tasks are many and she has to master them ONE (like shifting last term and vibrato this and future terms...) at a time - hence her LONG practice!

Let me give you an example, when she learns shifting, she does it EVER SO SLOWLY just to make sure it sounds absolutely right - no slight clicking sound which results when releasing too late, she says and no jerkiness which comes if I release my finger too fast before sliding.

Another reason why she takes so long - one hour - is, she has to get ONE BAR sounding not only seemingly to her imperfect ears,
(1) correct but also
(2) nice "NICE SOUND, PLEASE" (teacher's word)

before she then moves on to the next BAR - this is a VERY SLOW process! Will drive most kids MAD!!! But not a girl who's dedicated to her music.

Before you know it, hey presto - one hour is up! IT wasn't long! She does take a short break in the middle after her scales. She has never liked scales even though they are her strongest point so she feels she deserves a break or at least an ice lolly after scales (and arpeggios) and before attempting her pieces. I forgot to say she RUSHES through what she does not like - scales and sight-reading!

I REALLY THINK IT IS UP TO THE THE TEACHER TO ADVISE EITHER WHAT EXACTLY OR HOW TO PRACTISE, in general. IT MAKES A REAL DIFFERENCE to the student's motivation. She has a BRILLIANT teacher! What I don't get is why he thinks her ears are OK or rather, will be OK with time(?), when they are clearly not, as she has to rely on her mum's adult ears from the kitchen for her scales and arpegs![/I]

KARATE!!! and playing the violin??

Not exactly a good combination, and I speak from experience mixing dangerous hobbies with music.

Owning and riding a horse was bad enough, but it was the ice hockey that didn't really mix. Any sports that involve sparring, some sort of contact (whether deliberate or otherwise) are bad news for musicians of any age. I was eventually forced to give up the ice hockey two years ago - after sustaining repeated injuries to my right knee. Fortunately I was lucky enough to not end up with any serious damage to my arms or hands - although I knew of players with pinned elbows, wrists etc. following on-ice collisions.

As she's 'violin mad', hope you've let her know that any injuries to shoulders, or a broken arm/fingers/hand could mean weeks with no violin playing

[quote=AmandaL,Jul 4 2005, 11:57 AM]
[quote]BUT now that her karate's grading test is coming up[/quote]

KARATE!!! and playing the violin??

Not exactly a good combination, and I speak from experience mixing dangerous hobbies with music.

Goodness gracious! Doesn't all sports (apart from swimming and cycling) involve bodily contact? Even doubles tennis players bump into each other! What am I going to say to her? She's working hard at karate. Got distinction last term and wants to get as high as possible!

Aw, oh. Haven't warn her yet. How am I supposed to put it tactfully without sounding like a negative or over-reactive parent?

Sheer hard work is the way to get good, though... talent alone accounts for only a fraction of the equation.

Sounds like she is a very dedicated and focused young lady, I am impressed by your description of how she practices, sound like she has a very mature way of going about things. Wow. I don't doubt she'll go far if she keeps that up.

But some sports deliberately use violence to move people out of the way or defeat the opposition. I've not seen tennis players go around purposely hitting each other,....YET!

Karate and sports such as ice hockey are deliberate contact sports - you purposely hit your opponent in one way or another. Collisions on ice can also be in excess of 30 mph, which is a lot faster than tennis players would bump into one another. Cycling can be as dangerous as horse riding - broken collar bones are the commonest injury. Nothing is safe really...life is a risk, but some accidents can be avoided with a bit of forethought and knowledge.

She sounds like a mature girl for her age and I think she would happy and very understanding that you have let her know the risks.

I combined a career as a professional violinist with deliberate contact sports for a number of years, but even while I was at school I was very aware that a broken arm or hand could have ended just the basic ability to play the violin.

Oh, Sarah, I know her... she will keep that up, all right. I don't doubt it. She is tenacious by nature. However, as for going far, well, I don't think we want her to be a violinist, that's all.

It's pretty cut-throat out there and it'd be so much more enjoyable to be a music teacher! Besides she is brilliant at school and has a wealth of broad general knowledge so teaching seems perfect for her. Sigh...the trials and tribulations a parent has to go through with their kids!

Possibly as a private teacher mixed with some freelance performing orchestral/chamber music. Teaching a musical instrument but never getting the opportunity to play after all the years you studied for, would be very frustrating.

School curriculum music teaching is something music colleges/unis struggle to get students interested in, simply because of the frequent bad behaviour in schools these days. Not one for the fainthearted - a room full of 30 children can very intimidating, even for the well seasoned school teacher.

[quote=AmandaL,Jul 5 2005, 01:31 PM]
[quote]It's pretty cut-throat out there and it'd be so much more enjoyable to be a music teacher![/quote]

Possibly as a private teacher mixed with some freelance performing orchestral/chamber music. Teaching a musical instrument but never getting the opportunity to play after all the years you studied for, would be very frustrating.

Yes, you are right, Amanda. I heard that her teacher teaches privately, performs, conducts, etc and seems to like it.

Thanks to Amanda, I've plucked up sufficient courage to warn her about KARATE!!!

Wait and see...

PS.
Whilst on the subject of scales and arpeggios, I was so pleased to hear her say her teacher thinks they are perfect (for the moment)!