one of my friend was showing me how to play the organ in school today, the sound was so nice and he made me really want to learn it!!
just want to know is it any different between an electric organ and a church organ to practise on( it seem like there are more pedals on the church organ than on an electric one.

church organs are VERY difficult to play absolutely nothing like a piano

nothing annoys organists more than pianists who think they can play the organ

I can imagine. I would love to try an organ...

Ask mrbouffant, he plays organ to a high level....and piano come to that.

Actually I 'm an organist, and I can think of several things that annoy me more!

thanks

(thanks for the mention Oddball!! )

I take you are talking really about the typical "home" electronic organ.. typically with two keyboards, lots of sounds and a rhythm unit. These have small, flimsy, plastic pedals which aren't really anything like a church organ pedals.

Your "standard" (if there is such a thing) church pipe organ pedal board will go from C two octaves below middle C to either F or G above middle C (two and a half octaves). It will also be made out of solid wood (there may be some veneering on the "black" notes on very expensive instruments)

The pedal board may be straight or it may be radiating in a slight semi-circle (so that either end of the pedal board is slightly closer to the bench, making it easier to reach the extreminities when you are sat on the stool, pivoting)

The pedal may also be concave, so the extreminities are slightly higher than the middle notes, again to aid reach when you are pivoting.

Pedal board apart, from a practice perspective the difference from a "home" electronic organ will be

- number of keyboards (or 'manuals' in pipe organ speak).. anything from one to three typically, four or even five on larger/cathedral organs.. there's another thread somewhere on which I posted a pic of the biggest one in the world with seven manuals!
- keyboard compasses may be different.. compasses are non-standard on many organs
- traditional pipe organs have mechanical linkage between the keyboards and the mechanisms that make the pipe sound. These are called tracker organs..
- other pipe organs may have electro-pneumatic action, tubular-pnuematic action or solid-state electronic action (the latter rather like the home organ)
- each action has it's own particular challenges, in terms of "weight" (the amount of strength you need to actual depress a note) and speed (articulation is a big challenge)

These are just a small number of things to consider. If it sounds complicated, it is at one level, but then at another it is just fabulous to sit at an organ console and have all that control over such a wide range of colour and VOLUME!

I'd encourage anyone to give it a go, but in terms of touch etc. it's a totally different ballgame to piano playing, without even worrying about the pedals! I would consider, assuming you are tall enough to reach the pedals and are aged >10 that you would need a keyboard facility of at least Grade 3-4 standard to make it worthwhile...!

There are plenty of organ teachers in the UK and teaching institutions (e.g. St. Giles International Organ School), but the best thing to do is to get friendly with your local church organist who - if they are sensible and a well-balanced individual - should positively encourage your interest and let you have a go!

(edit: I see you're in Berkshire, there are friendly churches/music directors in Lambourn and Reading I know who I am sure would be very welcoming and encouraging)

Good luck !

thanks very much, such a very good information!

If anyone in the South Norfolk area wants a go on a church organ let me know! Electronic organs basically are glorified keyboards, whereas Pipe Organs blow wind through real pipes to make sounds - sometimes many thousands of pipes. There are now some pretty good electronic digital imitation church organs,with a full pedal compass and good solid quality pedals just like a real console, but the older electronic organs are a different musical style altogether. The church ones are by far the best!

I used to page turn for a friend of mine who was an organist (he played the music at my wedding too- Fanfare for the common man, Jerusalem and Ride of the Walkerie). Organ playing seems far more physical than piano playing, and requires the grafting of extra limbs to enable you to play 3 or 4 manuals, the pedals, the swell pedal, and pull out stops all at the same time.

...more physical in dexterity terms, and therefore more mental I think....at least that's what I'm hoping (brain intact, body deteriorating )

my friend is so nice, he brought in some organ music and we began our first lesson today morning in the school chapel. i have found it alright for me which i found the pedals really fun. i have a question, what is it mean when a circle on the top of the note and on the bottom of a note. my friend told me that but i just forgot about it.

Usually it is a pedal note and it means you play it with your heel.

oh yeah, i can remember now but i can't remember which one is for the left heel and which one is for the right heel.

Ah, ok - R heel is above the note, L heel is below the note.

thank you very much

For completeness: a toe is marked as a V above the note (right foot) and a /\ below the note (left foot) ....

EDIT: we say "toe" but in fact it is probably the ball of your foot. It helps to tilt the feet inwards to get this effect...

Depending on your school of tuition, heels in Baroque music are anathema since the pedal boards of the time (esp. in Germany) were constructed of such short dimension (front-back) that you couldn't play with heels at all. If you're more pragmatic, sometimes it is a matter of "needs must" !

Heel/toe works very well until you have to play TWO notes with one foot which happens occasionally - the end of Guilmant's First Sonata for example. Right toe on tenor F#, right heel on tenor A a minor third above, left toe playing low D to make D major....

If you play in shoes, great.. a built-up heel in the shoe helps with that kind of thing. Unfortunately, I have always played in socks (a bad habit picked up from very early days playing when I was ten) and even with my size 11 feet, this is quite difficult to form a big enough arch...

i have sized 12 feet(and very wide as well) so my friend told my i need to play with out shoes and it is alright for me though

I have to say, if you're going to get into it, that you should consider shoes.. It's my biggest failing and holds me back from being a decent organist..

One supplier is here.. but I was recommended a men's "character shoe" from Freeds of London (how embarrassing was I wandering into a ballet shop to enquire upon footwear.. )

At lease Allegro now import them I had to get the pair i have sent from America a couple of years ago
Are these ballet ones meant to be better than the organmasters? ? :S

Morning everyone.

Glad to see some discussion about the organ. I have always been fascinated by the instrument from being a small child (why?) and have worked with professional organists, performed and taught the instrument for 30 years. I consider myself very lucky to embrace the organ in its various forms - classical pipe, theatre pipe and modern electronic.
Many of these "home" organs ( and I'm NOT referring to single keyboards of which I'm not all that fond, but still teach) have been a stepping stone to the pipe organ for many of my students, young or mature. It is very easy to look down on them - yes, they are very different - there is usually an octave of "toe only" pedals, the manuals are shorter, and the sounds are now truly authentic orchestral/instrumental with traditional organ sounds as (almost) second place.
But they do have there place in the world of making music. All the Examination Boards consider them as equally examinable (except ABRSM - sorry!)
For those that are not keen on "church" organ, I also teach theatre/cinema organ. This is a pipe organ designed originally for the accompaniment of silent films, but arrived in this country towards the end of that era, and therefore were installed in cinemas to provide musical interludes and solo spots for the organists, who were the stars of their day. The music most suited to these instruments is light and popular classics, ballads of the 20's 30's 40's and so on, marches, waltzes etc.
It's VERY interesting to note how many classical organ recitalists are including pieces of a light and more modern nature in their programmes. Recently heard amongst Bach, Widor and Sweelinck was some Eric Coates marches "Calling All Workers and "The Dambusters", some novelty pieces "Nola" and "Dance of the Icicles".......and why not? These items received more response of delight from the audience (we were in a church) than the "straighter" pieces.

If any "organ" or style of playing gets someone going on making music, then I'm all for it.

Your thoughts and views?

Best wishes
Diapason

I've always wanted to play Theatre Organ ever since hearing Robert Wolfe on the Wurlitzer at Thursford when I was about 6 years old!

I don't suppose you live near Stockport. I occasionally teach on the 4 manual Wurlitzer in the Town Hall. Have quite a few local pupils lined up to get on the mighty beast next year.