I am having a problem with a mum with a musical background about whether the ornament is on/off the beat. Which is it?
I have tried to explain it to her but I am beginning to think maybe it is me?
Full Version: Grade 1 Piano Giga
According to the AB editor realisation above the ornament I would have said it's actually ON the beat. Ornaments in Baroque/early Classical tended to be on the beat rather than before, I think. Or at least that's how I was taught in both piano and flute! I'm teaching this Giga to a pupil and I've taught him to play the mordents on the beat. Hope that's what you want to hear!! 
I've only had one pupil play this, but she played on the beat - that is, the first note of the ornament coincided with the first LH note.
I agree. On the beat, but it may be omitted without the candidate being penalised.
I agree, I think it should be on the beat-which is how all of mine are playing it, with the exception of one young pupil with whom this seems to go against the grain-she actually plays the whole piece beautifully but seems to hear it as being before the beat and isn't happy putting it on the beat despite my best efforts .
ok so it is definitely not the 3rd note in the RH with the 1st note in the LH
Absolutely not! On the beat - first note RH with first note LH together. 
If you do consider leaving it out bear in mind the following (taken from 'These Music Exams'
As for the original question I agree with everyone else: on the beat, the purpose of the ornament is to accent the note it was on since harpsichords didn't have dynamics.
QUOTE
Ornaments are just another aspect of performance. If it is possible for them to be incorporated comfortably into the rhythm of the piece, they are always welcome as an additional aspect of the style. If playing the suggested ornament is going to upset the pulse, then it is much better to shorten the ornament into a turn or mordent, or to leave it out entirely to keep the structure of the piece intact. It is at Grade 6 that pieces really requiring ornamentation should only be chosen when the ornaments can be incorporated, even if in modified form. In the lower grades examiners are happy to accept performances without ornaments (although they will not be able to award the highest marks), providing that other musical aspects, such as phrasing and dynamics, have been given consideration.
As for the original question I agree with everyone else: on the beat, the purpose of the ornament is to accent the note it was on since harpsichords didn't have dynamics.
QUOTE(AnotherPianist @ Oct 10 2005, 09:48 PM)
As for the original question I agree with everyone else: on the beat, the purpose of the ornament is to accent the note it was on since harpsichords didn't have dynamics.
Yes, ornaments were intended to decorate the melody note over which they were written (or sometimes just implied by a cadence). Ornaments played before the beat are therefore ornamenting the previous beat.
Having said that, there are occasions in extremely fast pieces when an ornament will take place before the beat, but the aural effect will be the same as when they take place on the beat.
Hope that made sense - it has been a long day.
Steve
QUOTE(frumpybabes @ Oct 10 2005, 09:01 PM)
I am having a problem with a mum with a musical background about whether the ornament is on/off the beat. Which is it?
I have tried to explain it to her but I am beginning to think maybe it is me?
I have tried to explain it to her but I am beginning to think maybe it is me?
I had several children play this piece today. It clearly shows above the dotted crotchet how the mordent should be played - 2 semiquavers and a crotchet and then the bar is completed with a dotted crotchet rest. This mum must have a limited musical knowledge if she can't make sense of this. It also says that the mordent is optional in the exam - that would be an easy way out. Good luck frumpybabes, I hope she lets you get on with teaching her child without her interfering.
I would say on the beat too. 
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