Today I received my new viola (from Liz) and it's gorgeous! I was so inspired by it that I have just rung up and joined an orchestra... I now have until Thursday to remember how to play a viola (after a 20 year gap!)

Good on you, willobie, and good luck!

I just bought some clarinet quartets today from the sale box at Chappell's. If we could rustle up a cello and a violin player, we could have a go at them in the lunch break at the next LRO/SRP!

It might take me a bit longer than that...

Fantastic, Willobie! What did you get? I love my viola it is a beautiful instrument.... I got it in the summer and was similarly excited

O it will come back to you very soon. One of the most sickening things I saw in my life was a RNCM graduate who bought a gama cello from us and told us she hadn't played for 20 years. She picked it straight up and played the Elgar. After 20 years! Not fair!!!

Liz

Gah.

*sighs*

*goes to bed*

*Blinks*
wow!

good luck willobie!

It's a Gems2 15.5" beauty. It feels very nice to play - even if it has been a long time since I played one! I must try to remember how to read alto clef - I seem to have bluffed myself into a (amateur) Symphony Orchestra ...

W

Cool

Yes, I returned to the viola a couple of years ago after a loooooooooong time off, and found myself in a quintet with two amazing cellists and two amazing violinists... all around Dip standard, and I was a rusty never-quite-got-to-grade-7 standard. Boy did I improve quickly!

Enjoy!

I don't think this green colour suits me

I think the best thing you can do to help enjoy your first rehearsal is to pester the conductor to let you have the music before the rehearsal. I think going over something that you've already been over at your own pace is much easier than trying to sight read everything.

My wife and I have had two violas off Liz - we think they are fantastic too.

You would not have been envious had you seen the complete plonker I made of myself in the first few rehearsals. I improved out of self-defence!

it could look pretty cool next time you do "Mars" on French Horn.

At the moment my needs are rather more basic than that. I need to be able to bow on one sting at a time (not 2) and to get some feel for how to pitch the notes. My (always insecure) alto clef reading is now quite pathetic...

I have rediscovered the pain factor of sore fingers and an aching shoulder...

Rehearsal is on Thursday but I don't know anyone connected with the orchestra. If I can stuggle through the first night (Delius, Barber & Franck!) I can take the music to look at over the next two weeks (half term). The concert is in 4 weeks time

Perhaps I shouldn't be saying this, but, take the oldest trick out of the amateur orchestra book: play what you can and fake the rest in the first rehearsal. Don't put too much rosin on the bow and try to get yourself seated on the back desk.

As you say, get through the first rehearsal and then take the music away to look at - still a lot of work to do in two weeks though.

Good luck!!


Couldn't agree more - especially with Presto movements. It's enough as one can do to read previously unseen music at that speed, let alone play it at the same time.

I can sympathise, have played more violin and viola over the last week and a bit than over the previous 6 months, and had forgotten how it can make your fingers sore!

Alto clef *will* come back with patience and practice, and I agree with Amanda, play what you can I'm sure you'll find once you get going you will surprise yourself with how much you *can* manage.

You can tell Amanda is primarily a violinist

wow! what a challenge! especially if you turn up and find the viola section is quite small!

I play the viola in an easy pieces string orchestra which needed more violas, despite the fact that the violin is the only instrument I have ever really learnt on.

You mention a number of specific worries. In relation to getting a feel for pitching the notes I'm not sure if this might help. It was written with violin in mind so you would have to substitute CGDA for GDAE.

As to reading alto clef, I am told this comes with practise although I wouldn't know since I don't get round to practising that much! In the meantime, for recognising the notes on the stave it might be worth making yourself some flashcards. It is also possible to make flashcards representing (for instance) the finger positions for the different notes of a C major 2 octave scale. Might even get round to doing that myself sometime.

As to reading different keys, this is a bit of a short term swindle, but I'm still doing it this way. I know it's not really what you should do, but it's a trade off of how much time I'm prepared to spend doing viola scales (ie none) against a desire to play in various keys. It has enabled me to read simple viola music confidently in any key without learning any scales. Given that you only have 4 weeks to the concert, it may be of some help in the short term to at least be aware of the simple repeating pattern which underlies the positioning of the fingers in any major scale in any given position. On the other hand I am the only person I have yet found who understands what I am talking about on that point, so please don't waste too much time on it if it doesn't seem to make sense!

As to bowing on the wrong strings, it sounds like you just need to re-find your right arm elbow levels by bowing on some open strings when you warm up.

I like to think wrong notes get buried to a certain degree in an orchestra, but it would help if you aren't playing too loudly. AmandaL I think has mentioned not putting too much rosin on. You could always keep your mute on as well!

In terms of "crash course" preparation for a concert, I think it is really helpful to have recordings of the pieces you are going to play, and to read your part through whilst listening to the pieces. That way you will identify where you are exposed, and what the most difficult parts are. Often a section that looks quite black turns out to be quite straightforward, whereas a fairly simple looking load of crotchets in a presto or a scherzo can be quite a finger twister or another innocuous looking section can involve some quite difficult counting. But being a music teacher you probably know that side of things much better than I do anyway.

good luck on Thursday!

[quote=zoda,Oct 17 2005, 09:50 PM]
[quote=willobie,Oct 17 2005, 11:35 AM][quote=zoda,Oct 17 2005, 10:03 AM]I At the moment my needs are rather more basic than that. I need to be able to bow on one sting at a time (not 2) and to get some feel for how to pitch the notes. My (always insecure) alto clef reading is now quite pathetic...

I have rediscovered the pain factor of sore fingers and an aching shoulder...

Rehearsal is on Thursday but I don't know anyone connected with the orchestra. If I can stuggle through the first night (Delius, Barber & Franck!) I can take the music to look at over the next two weeks (half term). The concert is in 4 weeks time

[/quote]

wow! what a challenge! especially if you turn up and find the viola section is quite small!

I play the viola in an easy pieces string orchestra which needed more violas, despite the fact that the violin is the only instrument I have ever really learnt on.

I like to think wrong notes get buried to a certain degree in an orchestra, but it would help if you aren't playing too loudly. AmandaL I think has mentioned not putting too much rosin on. You could always keep your mute on as well!


good luck on Thursday!

[/quote]

Yes, I had rather hoped to ease myself in with a Haydn symphony or something so this will be a shock to the system. Like you, I've only really learned violin but that was in my youth! I did do a lot of orchestral playing in those day so I'm not too worried by that aspect - it's more the viola thing! I've only ever played viola about half a dozen times in orchestras and never had a lesson.

My only crumb of comfort is that there are about 5 other violas so I should be able to hide at the back. I have played the Franck (Symphony in D) before (on violin - 20 years ago) so I might stand some chance. I listened to the Delius (Florida Suite) and it doesn't sound too bad - depends what key it's in... The Barber (cello concerto) however is a completely unknown quantity...

Just a thought - does anyone know any cures/prevention for sore fingers?

W

Ah, now if you've played the violin before, that's a huge advantage! Just do some sightreading of really easy music to get your eye in, and get the position of the open strings very clear in your mind. The fingering in first position on the viola feels exactly like being in third position on the violin, except you have to work out the correct key (and of course the position of the open strings).

Cure for sore fingers? leave some skin on them! They do tend to harden up quite quickly if you let them rest overnight and don't overdo it. Other than that I'm a bit stuck.

Oh, I'm glad someone else uses that (the 3rd position thing) to reorient - when I try to explain that to people I usually get weird looks....

right, well I'll be a flying "weird look" picket for you if you'll be one for me. Anyone gives us a weird look and we can gang up and give them a weird look back. And I've got a natural advantage when it comes to weird looks!

You're on.... and as for weird looks, I ain't bad at them either

I was going to ask where to find a weird look smiley but I see you've found one already...

type wacko surrounded by : : and you get

flying pick loaded and ready for action



and one in the barrel

Ok, perhaps the damp weather is swelling the sawdust, but i've just been looking at this for several minutes and I can't work it out. please explain, someone!

Liz

Pick up a viola, put your hand in first position. Look at the music. Imagine you are playing a violin but your hand is in third position. You will be (approximately...) in the right place playing (give or take) the right notes.

Zoda's only about the 2nd person I've come across who started that way/understands it that way, and most people look at me as if I am mad, so if you don't "get" it, you're in the vast majority....

If I stand on my head, close one eye and squint a bit, I can just about see what you mean but the mental gymnastics involved are too much for my poor little brain Obviously I'm not cut out for viola playing...

W

The other (and probably better!) option is to learn to read the alto clef on a viola, and do it thoroughly. Then you won't need the mental gymnastics!

Can you get hold of a real beginners' viola book? Going back to very basics on everything (open strings et al) may help cement alto/viola rather than treble/violin reading in your brain.

Very few people seem to get the 3rd position thing, so if it doesn't help you, ignore it

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm not too bad in 1st position (although I do drift occasionally) but I tend to lose the plot in higher positions. I suppose that means I'm linking the note on the stave with a particular fingering - a rather dangerous habit methinks!

W

That's what comes of too much recorder playing.

Or, on second thoughts, it doesn't. I now have at least three fingerings to associate with any one dot.

If you're doing OK in first position then that's half your music no problems, and you can always fake the rest at the back of the section

But seriously, I lose the plot half the times with higher positions on the violin *grin* I am sure it will all come back with a vengeance

Andante: That's one of the reasons I stick to treble - fingerings that are totally different are easier than those which are sort of similar but not the same (to me, anyway! ) though I associate the letter names (rather than the dots) with the descant fingerings more than the treble ones - probably due to the flute!

O I see. Thanks. but isn't it about 100 times easier just to learn alto clef???

Liz

It helps some people and not others. Obviously it's only really useful as a "signpost" whilst in first position, but that's a time when I for one find it helpful sometimes, being far more used to treble clef/the violin.

We know what we mean, don't we Sarah-Flute!

It was certainly the easiest way for me to adjust to alto clef for the easy pieces I play, but given that violin is not particularly a main instrument for Willobie, and that her main orchestral instrument will be viola, our "cunning plan" looks like it wouldn't work for her!

It should have worked - violin was my main instrument for many years (in the far distant past) but I guess I just have the wrong sort of brain

I have used similar strategies in the past when learning to play the voice flute (recorder in D)...

W

Zoda, you've no idea how glad I am that I'm not the only person who uses or used that (after playing viola for a while I tend to click into alto clef but it's still useful if I have a sudden attack of "argh!") - people usually look at me like I've lost it totally!

Willobie: learning the alto clef and not trying to do mental gymanastics is probably the better way to do it anyway, especially if you are planning on viola being your main or only one out of the two. Never heard of a voice flute, curious now... *goes to google it!*