I've posted here before and got some really useful help, so here goes again.

I'm doing G8 and I've got about a hundred and ninety twelve scales to learn. I can do all of them (more or less, give or take a bit of non-legato here and there )

However, I find it really hard to learn some of the scales in sixths. Is it just a question of practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice and then a bit more practice? Or is there a cunning plan?

And then there's the chromatic scales starting a minor third apart. My left hand is a good deal slower than my right, but it seems that no matter what speed I go I get out of "sync" so that I end up a second apart, or a fourth, or something equally hideous. Do I just need to practice this really slowly, or is there another cunning plan? I do like a cunning plan, especially on Fridays.

Edwardo The Thief of Time

If there is a cunning plan I've not heard of it.....

I just started with C and added on to that as I got comfortable with each one until I had them all up and running and slotted into my normal routine.
Gets a bit easier as you go on because you get more used to the coordination needed.
I like scales in 6ths and the chromatic minor 3rds...

Me too esp the chromatics...

Is it really THAT many??

I'm just practising each scale loads and usually i get it. The ones in 6ths are a lot harder than the 3rds arent they?

It's a long time since I had to learn these scales - but probably the best way is to practise just one octave very slowly, at the kind of speed where your brain can concentrate and focus on the fingering in each hand comfortably - it needs to be what's called 'THE SPEED OF NO MISTAKES' !!! Then when one octave is ok, extend to 2 octaves, etc . The fingering needs to be accurate and consistent to avoid the scales coming apart later on.

For the hands-separately chromatics in minor thirds, I practised them back and forth in groups across the awkward turns - it helps to focus practice on the worse-affected areas.

CPPF: 192 isn't unrealistic. For each of the scales in the group:

- major, left hand, legato
- major, right hand, legato
- major, hands together one octave apart, legato
- major, hands together a third apart, legato
- major, hands together a sixth apart, legato
- harmonic minor, left hand, legato
- harmonic minor, right hand, legato
- harmonic minor, hands together one octave apart, legato
- harmonic minor, hands together a third apart, legato
- harmonic minor, hands together a sixth apart, legato
- melodic minor, left hand, legato
- melodic minor, right hand, legato
- melodic minor, hands together one octave apart, legato

... and all staccato, as well. Plus the chromatics and other oddments, and it soon adds up.

Don't count them...
I see it as major and minor scales and arpeggios on 8 starting notes only and all the extra things you do with them (3rds, 6ths, staccato, inversions, dominant 7ths etc) I don't count as separate entities.
There are a few other things as well but in my way of counting I don't get to the over facing hundreds and can easily cover the whole lot over 4 days at only 30 -40 minutes a day.

Oh dear..*goes to practise scales* *gulp*

and i thought grade 8 bassoon scales were bad *also goes to practise scales*

There are a lot of scales to learn in grade eight, as previously listed, as well as arpeggios, dominant sevenths, and diminished seventh chords. I started sixth apart scales about six months ago, even though my exam is in the spring.

My only advice would be practice. Most likely, your fingers are not used to playing scales that way, with each hand starting on a different note. Try not to focus on all the keys first, but focus on the ones that you find particularly difficult. I, for instance, pay special attention to G# minor when practicing sixth apart scales.

The chromatic scales, I find, are pretty easy after you learn one, since the fingering is the same, no matter what note you start on. As for the chromatic scale which you play starting on A# and C# in thirds, you just have to get used to the fingering and everything.

Basically, it all leads to one thing: practice.

I think it is a question of practice, practice, practice... I'm learning the scales in 6ths as well and they're hard! Well I can do it in my right hand but not with my left... I don't mind the scales in 1st inversion but they're kind of weird!

CD22, as far as I know, scales are not played 1st inversion. Arpeggios are, however. Just a side note, I might be wrong.

In addition, another tip for everyone else out there, practicing in half-tempo and hands separately helps. Although sixth apart scales are not played hands separately, oftentimes the left hand has lapses in connection, tone, and all those other things, but is covered up by the right hand.

The examiner, however, can hear everything.

SCALES HAVE INVERSIONS?!?!!? INSANE!

Scales do not have inversions, as far as I know. It would be rather strange, wouldn't it?

exactly

Sorry I meant arpeggios not inversions!! Yep it would be really weird...

I'm also getting ready for grade 8 piano. However, I am giving myself plenty of time. I do not intend to start the pieces until next summer when the 2007-2008 syllabus is published and so I have set myself a target of learning the scales by then. I have already learn't everything but the arpeggios root, 1st inversion and 2nd inversion which I will start soon but I have learn't all the rest. Yes, the scales a 6th apart are indeed hard but once you sit down and attempt them, they can be mastered pretty quick, although not as easily as scales a third apart, I must admit.
Once mastered, they are as easy as any other.

I am lucky in that I have plenty of time. I do not intend to do the diplomas so grade 8 piano will be my last grade so I am kinda taking it slow and steady. I may have a look at the jazz piano exams after grade 8 although I am not sure yet.

Stick with it and you'll get there.

Shelton

Thank your lucky stars they do not.

If they did, the AB would include them in grade 8.

Back in 1968 when I took grade 8, having learned them (and goodness knows why I bothered because the experience did me no good) it took an hour a day just to play through them. As a teacher for more than 30 years, I do not think the number of scales to be played has shrunk.

Few of my grade 8 students do an hour a day practise, never mind an hour a day playing (and I use the term 'playing' with care) scales.

Crazy.

I don't know if anyone else gets this but I have trouble with different scales even though they are the same as other scales that i CAN do...(that probably didnt make sense so i'll give an example) I can play all C major arpeggios perfectly well but am really struggling with F major arpaggios, which my piano teacher pointed out was silly as both use all white keys and the same finger settings.

They look the same, on the surface. In reality, the difference in pitch means that you are starting each one with your body in a slightly different shape; so far as your body is concerned, you are engaging in two different activities.

This is exacerbated if you sit too close to the piano. Sitting far enough back that your elbows are slightly in front of your torso when you play helps.

Steve