I am starting to get fingers being 'cut' by the violin string (I don't know how to explain, but I guess those playing violin and guitar would know) and wrist pain after playing for 1 hour or more, if I play scales and arpeggios for Eb major and D major in 3 octaves, or after playing double stops for a long time. My fingers goes numb after playing...

For the scale, I have to strain my hands to reach the top few notes, while keeping my thumb still touching the back (or rather side) of the violin. Is this normal? Sometimes the pain is so severe that I have to let my left hand dangling down for about 15 minutes for the pain to go off.

Please help and advice

i think the finger "cut" is normal......but i never get any wrist pain before.
my fingers will go numb if i play "thrill" too long.

if u feel any pain....u should stop the practice.
tell your teacher about this, they can help

I've never had cut fingers - sounds like a combination of metal strings and bridge too high to me. As for the pain, take a warning from me: I carried on with a situation like that involving my shoulder, for a month or so in the summer. For the last two months I haven't been able to play AT ALL and I have pain with all sorts of other things too. I am gradually getting some mobility back but I don't think I'll be playing again this side of Christmas. Please - don't chance it.

Liz

Hi Happygirl,
VN got her fingers cut as well and she told her teacher rightaway and he told her she overpractised and sug a break. She stopped for a few days and never got it again. Maybe the skin re-grew and toughened up! Show your teacher and ask him/her what he/she suggest.

He also advised always STOP practising immediately as soon as it hurts as per Liz's advice above.

Tess

Edited - One other possibility re. fingers cut is, you may be pressing the string (incorrect) as opposed to tapping the fingerboard through it (correct)?

Read this thread about RSI. Are you taking short breaks in your practice? 5 mins time out every 15 mins or so may help. Who says you can't move your hand a bit to compensate for the very top notes? Every player has to move away from being anchored to the neck at some point when ascending, it just varies according to the person (and the instrument of course).

A couple of weeks rest now to get yourself sorted out is much better than several months rest further down the line. Be really careful as it can get worse quite rapidly. I went from having mild pain in my wrists and arms, to not being able to even hold a cup of tea or brush my teeth properly within about a week. I'm gradually getting back to normal now, but my arms still get tired really easily just doing normal things. I'm so annoyed with myself for just ignoring it...

Also, perhaps check that your playing posture is correct, e.g. not hunching shoulders etc?

Rosie

I'm not sure about cuts, but I have callouses which develop from the pressure of the string on soft skin. Sounds like your action is too high. Your teacher could sort that out.
I also have problems playing high scales or double stopped scales for a long time, for my left hand it's the wrist which feels twisted and the lower arm which also feels twisted underneath but that's because my violin is a 4/4 which is really too big. It's getting better since I started breaking up my scales, so I do one which is physically easy, followed by a more painful one to allow it to relax.
You could invest in some wrist strengtheners like tennis players use, they build wrist and lower arm muscles. I have found them to be extremely useful.

My fingers go numb if i play trills or double-stops for quite a period of time.

But my exam is just round the corner, in early December I dare not take days off practice because I scared that my playing will deteriorate during my break, and I need time to build up my scales, arpeggios, again. Just realize, I might be pressing on the strings too hard! My finger cuts heals after 2 days not practising, but it is more severe, I need up to 5 days for it to cure.

I take about 3 short breaks between my practice each time (about 2 hours). And about keeping fingers 'anchored to the neck', my teacher told me to do so when I asked him about the scales. Well, I am only going for lessons 2 weeks before my exam. Guess I have to sort things out then. Hope it is not too late! I am now 'teaching' myself

But i think my playing posture should be correct, since I didn't get any back pain after playing for 2 hours standing. I don't get wrist pain from playing my pieces, just finger pain after playing Gigue from Bach's partita no.2 in D minor, which is supposed to be played very fast.


Exactly! That's what I feel like! I am using 4/4 size violin but I am in my twenties already...

Thanks for your replies...I will 'try' to reduce my practice...

This is all very well, but every player has different finger lengths, different sized hands and even the size of the instrument can affect just how far you can reach while keeping the thumb on the neck.

Your teacher probably has quite large hands and is able to reach easily with his thumb anchored to the neck. If you're hands are a lot smaller then this becomes impossible, especially to reach notes almost at the extremity of the G and D strings. In fact, in really high poistions most people can reach better using their third finger rather than the fourth.

Do be careful. Don't strain your arm or wrist and risk an injury.

One other point. When shifting, I've always been told to release the finger pressure on the string, don't keep them pressed down. The thumb remains in light contact with the neck as a reference point on the other side. No gripping! If you shift with fingers down you get 1) glissando/slide and 2) sliced fingers .

P.S. Tess, I would reply to your PM, but your in-box is full.

isn`t that u should feel pain on your fingers until the skin grew harder ?

No, I was joking. That's supposed to be the case for guitar, guitar students say.

Yup, you should try not to have any pain. So maybe you're pressing down on the strings too hard or practicing too many hours if you feel pain in your fingers?

Mine have hardened skin covering them too. Only problem is that I can't feel the tips of my fingers very well with them, then I tend to peel the skin off. Then it grows again.... a vicious cycle! Not very nice feeling playing the piano right after the violin.

Is this a good thing? I have it too and although it's a great party trick to stick pins in it as I have no feeling, it's kinda weird and only developed a couple of weeks ago.

then what is the correct way to play chromatics scale without finger pain?......you need to slide ur finger up or down a semitone and it hurts!

I start to have hard and thick skin, the skin without feeling, if i practise everyday.

Well, I have discovered that it is because I've been playing the 'high' scales more than 20 times at one go. That gives me the pain. I play the easy and hard scales alternately and I find that it helps!

Chromatic scales giving the pain? I don't think so. I think is the double-stop scales that is giving me real pain if i keep practising the double stops

No no no no no...
Don't slide your finger! Just wait til you try them slurred. You re-place your finger. Sliding it must really hurt! Just treat it like 2 different notes.

Awesome party trick: hard skin has no feeling, as I discovered when I accidentually put a needle into my 1st finger!

Yes, exactly, you have to momentarily release the pressure on the string surely, then make the finger movement.


Bearing in mind it's Halloween, it's worth remembering that in the Middle Ages an area of insensitive skin was often known as a "Witch's Mark". The assigned Witchfinder would examine suspected witches by pricking them all over with a needle. If no bleeding or pain was observed at a particular spot, then this was held to be the place the Devil had placed his Mark of initiation. After trial, a convicted witch would suffer the statutory punishment, typically being burnt alive. More here.

Oooh....i have a lttle adjustment to do then.....

Party trick:...i try this always...using pencil ,needle or any sharp object..

I have it on good authority that hardened skin on your fingers is actually a sign that you're pressing down too hard on the strings.

An excellent exercise for lessening the finger pressure on the strings is the 'bouncy finger exercise'. Play a note and then immediately release the pressure to a 'fuzz sound'. Do this with every finger, every string, or preferably with every note of a piece you're working on.

The consequence is a much lighter touch which also enables you to play faster and more nimbly. A lot of us tend to squeeze our fingers down too hard on the string when it's really not necessary.

Try it, you may be surprised.

Violinia

A notorious problem of starter cellists is to have the so-called "death grip", where they hold the neck of the instrument like a drowning man grasping a lifeline

Relax!

Sounds interesting - I'll try that sometime.

does the finger come up, still touching the string or still pressing the string when u release pressure?

The finger comes up very quickly (as quickly as you can release it) and comes to rest gently on the string to a 'fuzz' sound.

Violinia

Another approach to the pressure issue is to learn to play harmonics, i.e. the notes obtained by lightly touching (but not stopping) the string at certain key nodal points. Use of harmonics will build awareness of the differing sorts of LH touch that are possible.

Harmonics are often seen as a pretty advanced technical matter, but there are probably some introductory tutors out there; they are introduced fairly early on in cello study, as an alternative to 5th position.

haromics!
i`m already grade 6 and my teacher didn`t teach me that!

Well he should! I'm only Grade 5 and if I had him when I was Grade 3, I'd bet anything he'll teach me! Because it's in my Grade 3 book although it's only one note but it's really fun to play! Touch very lightly on the G on the D string and you get the D two octaves above middle C! Nice.

I can play harmonics quite well, but I don't know why my teacher says that I don't press down hard enough on the strings. Sometimes there is a 'feathery' sound, he says.

does that apply to every string? ...i found it hard to do on E string.

Harmonics should work the same on every string, but you may need to adjust the position where the bow crosses; quite often I find the bow needs to be nearer the bridge to activate the harmonic most effectively.

Do you know where to touch to find the different harmonics?

The octave one is halfway along the string, it's about where your 4th finger would be in 5th position on the violin. I find that's the easiest harmonic to get to sound nicely, usually.

to get the open string 2 octave higher, u need to touch the string using at a certain point (eg. touch G on D string & touch C on G string).....is it correct?

what will happen/sound if i touch another spot?

Unfortunately, it would take a book to explain harmonics in detail. Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin#Harmonics
http://members.tripod.com/~violini/acoustics.html
http://www.musicalobservations.com/publica.../harmonics.html

I'm equally on this subject

Experiment and find out! Try resting a finger lightly on any string, then sliding the finger up and down the string while you bow. It's your bow and your instrument. Have a little adventure.

thank you very much guys

Well I'm no really an expert, but that explains it about my being able to do the 'D' two octaves above the open 'D' string well. I didn't think about the bowing part, but thanks for the info Anyway, it looks like you have to bow a perfect fourth above the note you want to sound two octaves higher, if that makes any sense.

Harmonic scales are a whole lot of fun. Place your 1st finger down and your little finger a 4th above. Then move them up one step at a time. You can play whole tunes way above the pitch you would expect, it's very fun! Otherwise I suppose if you find the half way point, and then halve that, and halve it again etc etc you find harmonics.