Hello everyone!

This might sound rather strange, but I find it really hard to listen to opera music and appreciate this style of singing. Something about the warbling voices makes the whole thing incredibly fake and forced. Problem is, I sing myself and obviously don't want to rule out this whole genre. I can't help, when I'm listening to operas (for example, I went to see Cosi fan tutte with my music class yesterday) to think how unnatural it sounds. So I suppose my question is: how do I learn to appreciate this kind of singing properly? Are there other people who feel the same way? Very often I like the tunes/melodies very much, it's just the style in which they are sung that I find slightly irritating.

Comments etc. very welcome!
Charlotte

Hmmm, yes, a fair question. There are an amazing range of opera styles, and some are indeed "stylized" to a high degree. So, you may have to accept the given formalisms to access the very significant content, and Cosi is a prime example. All I can say is there are many, many, different types of opera which have developed throughout several centuries and in many countries. In exactly the same way as with concert music, there's no reason why you should necessarily expect to like most of these. Just listen to a wide variety of operas from many periods and countries, and perhaps you will find something to like. The challenge of the foreign languages used is of course an issue. One particular advantage of our age is ready access to many operas on DVD (from libraries) which you can watch at home at leisure, with subtitles as well.

I didn't used to like it, but I've grown more into it. When I started to sing arias and things, I started to apperciated these talented singers more. Storini has a point. To generalize all operas into one genre isn't exactly true. I like the lighter, funny ones with great plots, like the one that is portrayed in "Phantom of the Opera" (forgot the name- but it's the one with the page boy "You're part is silent, little toad.") and Die Flaudermaus. Others I can see them being to forced and stiff.
But, one more sidenote, I like singing it better than listening to it. Why is that?
-oh and one more- I like listening to it in people performing arias than one long thing that I don't understand
-and one more, I love it when they are in English, too
Christina

I honestly don't really like opera. Too much vibrato for my taste. I think a few opera singers sound really good, but for the most part I could do without it. I don't hate it, it just isn't my favorite style of singing. It's just as well that I don't like it because I don't have the right kind of voice to sing opera. I have more of a "boy choir" sound.

Charlotte, I am sure that you are definitely not alone.

Opera is not, and never has been, one my favourite genres. Like Sotto Voce, I don't enjoy listening to any singer with massive vibrato - so that rules out quite a few

I enjoy watching opera more than just listening - which probably explains why I have almost no operatic cds in my collection.

Let me know when you find out the answer !

Ditto everything Maggie has said!

And double ditto from me. I'm glad it's not just me!

Triple ditto!!

When vibrato is used and it stops sounding like singing and starts sounding like my sister in the shower or my other sister screaming is where I draw the line at enjoyment. Of course, I only speak English so I never know what's going on.

Opera, or any other music, doesn't have to be sung with a big warbly, wobbly vibrato. And it sounds a lot better without it.

However some vibrato's inevitable if you're properly relaxed and singing with the whole of your body. Trying to stop it will squash the sound you're making and you'll sound strained and squeaky.

I guess the important thing is to look for opera singers who don't warble, and to enjoy their performances.


Cheers

Katyjay

Charlotte,
You are not alone.

Some operas I hate, some, I enjoy! I prefer listening to watching opera. I'm not keen to watch as it seems to me that the set-up like make-up, costume, etc, are a bit over the top!!! Some operas are so long and boring that I simply ENDURE!

Tess

Charlotte, I completely understand where you're coming from - I used to feel exactly the same, but now I love opera! I think generally the idea of huge vibrato laden operatic singing is a bit dated, and while it was fashionable a while back, it seems to be dying out now and has become unfashionable and ugly. Of course, a certain level of vibrato is necessary and attractive in operatic singing, but some recordings pre-1975 can sound hugely overdone! I tend to stick to recordings (in general) that are more modern!

The fact is that opera is so far removed from the 'pop' way of singing, that when you first hear it, it can sound very alien. I think it's a case of exposure more than anything else, but I got into opera through musical theatre (particularly modern American musical theatre, which seems to have a closer sound to opera), and then began listening to singers like Barbara Bonney, who don't overuse the vibrato. Good luck!

Hi everyone!

Thank you very much for your replies! I feel so relieved *phew* that I'm not alone! I was genuinely worried that there might be something wrong with me or that I'm dreadfully unmusical because I can't appreciate warbling!

I'll definitely keep a lookout for un-warbly performances now !
Charlotte

I can't bear listening to warbly opera singers, and I'd like to have a career in opera some day. Keep hunting for good recordings - there are truly technically good singers out there (I reiterate Barbara Bonney, but my current favourite is a French singer, Sandrine Piau...not remotely warbly). Look for English language performances and recordings and if you're going to see an opera, sometimes it's nice to listen to recordings and get to know it first, just to avoid confusion.

Also, you might want to think about starting with operetta, stuff like Die Fledermaus (though I guess that's kind of borderline-ish? I don't know it well) and the old faithfuls Gilbert and Sullivan.

Good luck. Opera's a glorious thing when it's done right

Opera's great!!! (but I appreciate that not everyone shares my passion for six hours of Wagner).

Firstly, don't get too hung up on not liking it. It would be a dull place if everyone liked exactly the same things. If you want to get into it, firstly acknowledge that it might take a bit of getting used to. After all, people tend not to go around bursting into big arias at the highly dramatic points in life (but it could be fun if they did ). Oh, and read on...

Secondly, build on what you know. Have you heard any particular aria or chorus that you really liked? If so, see if you can get to hear the whole opera. In spite of popular opinion, opera doesn't have to be expensive. Yesterday's post brought a clutch of standing tickets for Spring 2006 at Covent Garden, ranging from £13 for Gotterdammerung down to £5 for Wozzeck (not that I think either of these are good starting points for opera newbies, but that's just my opinion). If you can cope without the visuals, tune in to Radio 3 on a Saturday evening. If you don't know any chunks of opera, try works by composers who you do know.

Thirdly, don't let the plots put you off. Some are complicated (especially when characters disguise themselves), some downright odd, many based on crazy coincidences that could only ever happen at the theatre. Nevertheless, most start "boy meets girl", and finish "boy loses girl".

Fourthly, find singers you like. Satine mentioned Barbara Bonney, who has a wonderfully pure sound; Felicity Lott's excellent, as are Anne Sofie von Otter and Susan Gritton (just names from the top of my head). You soon discover who's worth hearing!

Finally, don't let the foreign language stuff put you off. Whilst most opera is in Italian, there are plenty of works in French, German, English, Czech and Russian, plus other languages. Most opera houses have surtitles with a text translated into English. Alternatively, borrow a DVD from the library as this will probably have translations too (but see point 3 above about the plots!)

I look forward to bumping into you at Covent Garden soon!

If you want an affectionate take-off of opera as a genre, read Maskerade by Terry Pratchett; very funny, especially in terms of ridiculous storylines.

I like listening to some operatic singing - as others have said, depends a great deal on WHO is singing

Marvellous book, not only because it pokes fun at Andrew Lloyd-Webber

Brilliant writer, Mr Pratchett...and at the risk of going totally off topic, wish me luck - I'm playing Lady Sybil Ramkin in a production of Pratchett's "Guards, Guards" this week - really looking forwards to my first major non-singing role!

Good luck! I hope it goes really well!

Hehe, Lady Sybil, now there's a pair of shoes to fill!

To me, this is one of the key points. It's a bit like the difference between listening to the soundtrack of a wedding video where everyone is speaking in a language you don't know, or actually going to the wedding instead.

Not everyone likes the big soppy heart on your sleeve storylines of opera, but without the context you've just got fairly meaningless songs. My tape of Maria Callas has been so unplayed that I don't know where it is any more, yet on the couple of occasions I've been to the opera and had the benefit of a translation in supertitles over the stage I have really enjoyed it.

There's a bit in Madame Butterfly when she's telling someone that her little boy's father had said he would come back for them when the birds were making their nests. But she had watched the birds make their nests and fly from them three times (or something like that) and he hadn't come back. She then sings one of the most beautiful songs in the opera when she is saying how one day she'll look out to sea and see him sailing in for her. Of course he then does turn up, but with his new wife, and they take Madame Butterfly's son away with them to give him a better life.

For a lot of people the story is already moving before the music even starts. Somehow the warbliness then seems more fitting when you know what they're warbling on about.

Or there's the bit near the end of La Traviata where the hero finally comes to his wife on her death bed. She has lived in exile from him, persuaded by her father in law that she must leave because she is not good enough for the family. Despite her bitterness at what might have been, she tells him to find a new girl in the bloom of her youth, and to marry her, and to show her this (some treasured possession) and tell her it belonged to an angel in heaven who now blesses her. The beauty of that song can't be divorced from its place in the story.

The aria without the opera isn't enough. When you hear it it should take you back to your comfy theatre seat with the orchestra playing, the light and colour of the stage shining through the darkness of the theatre, and the tears rolling down your face (not my face though - I'm a bloke, innit).

Then again, not everything's equally heavy. I've never found Orpheus and Euridice oppressively wobbly - "What is life without Euridice?" (sorry I can only remember the English words) is an all time favourite of mine. I've never been to "the Magic Flute" but the bits extracted in the film "Amadeus" seem fairly accessible. And then there's Offenbach with his light bawdy humour and of course Gilbert and Sullivan, which has some quite moving songs despite being "light opera".

Opera is one of those things for me that I started off with the view that I should force myself to watch a bit of it because it was uncultured not to, but having been I feel it would have been missing out something really special never to have bothered with it.

Che faro senza Euridice (I think!)

I've never seen opera "live" but funnily enough I prefer listening to a CD than watching a video - maybe I've just never seen good videos




Un bel di vedremo is gorgeous... to me the music is so emotional that I don't need to know what all the words mean...

Having said that I would love to see some of these arias "in context"

I've been booked in to see an opera in London when I go up next weekend. My COMPLETELY non-musical brother who managed to get cheap tickets couldn't pronounce the title either so I've no idea what I'm going to see. Should be interesting. . .

Where and when are you going Boo? If it's Saturday 19th, it's Sylvia (ballet ) at Covent Garden , or Salome at ENO.

I'm odd. I find opera hard to listen too and don't like most of it ..apart from Mozart's operas .I love them

... you mean that solely in the context of your taste for opera, of course!


Sarah-Flute - Grazie!

I'd say "you're welcome" in Italian but I don't know how! D'oh!

I'm not even sure why I remember Che faro senza Euridice... I'm sure there are gadzillions of aria titles that I've listened to or even studied that I wouldn't remember.

Ho hum!

Sorry I don't know either, except it is the 19th. Should be a nice surprise. . .

If it's Salome that will indeed be a surprise for you. This is a magnificent work, absolutely enthralling in the theatre. Loosely speaking, it's about the beheading of John the Baptist, and features a variety of depraved characters possessed by lust and madness. The eponymous (anti-)heroine gets her kit off in the notorious Dance of the Seven Veils in the latter part of the one-act opera.

Richard Strauss, the composer, made a fortune from the opera which was a scandalous success.

Enjoy!

P.S. More at http://www.eno.org/whats-on/whats-on.php?i...&season=current

Prego ???

Ahhhh that sounds right - D'oh! Thanks, Maggiemay (or should I say grazie?)

Prego, zoda

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