Hello
Probably a question for teachers....
What percentage of students reach what grades...
Not because they give up but because they cannot achieve a higher standard. Or with effort can almost everyone reach grade eight even if it takes forever.
BFN Mike

Hi Mike ... an interesting question - my initial and rather quick reaction is that for many younger students other things just get in the way sooner or later, like school exams and the need to specialise around the mid-teens. Some primary school children have so many activities that instrumental lessons get by on ten mins practice or so a week, and it's not surprising that progress and results are hard to see.

Having said that, no, I don't think everyone is capable of reaching grade 8 necessarily. But I do think most people, given the right instrument, the right teacher(s), a focused approach to practice, adequate time and sufficient motivation are capable of reaching, say, grade 5 or 6. (And I also think for many students the race to grade 8 is actually counter-productive - but that's been discussed in many threads many times before!)

It seems to me that at some point - maybe around grade 2-ish - a degree of independent learning needs to kick in, and those that manage it often take off at this stage. Some children don't seem to make this transition, and find it difficult to move beyond this preliminary level. I suspect in many cases it's lack of REAL practice, but no doubt there are other reasons too. They may quite enjoy playing, but the reality of having to get down and sort out their piece is for some just too much. Then progress slows down and eventually boredom and lack of interest tend to take over and the child gives up.

Just a few random thoughts.

I would agree that not everyone has that potential, although it's difficult to definitely say who will and who won't as some pupils can surprise you and either start with great progress and then just dwindle, or the opposite - start very slowly so you think they'll never get anywhere and then suddenly take off at grade 4 level (example only!) Some will always be held back by physical limitations maybe very stiff fingers/hands which never really unstiffen, or maybe even poor coordination which can go so far but no further. And in piano specifically the brain's ability to read and process 2 different lines of notes (although this ability is more important in sight-reading.)

Well....grade 8 is the highest examination for Amateur pianists. To say, the next qualification, the DipABRSM...or whichever it is for other boards (LTCL??) is a professional qualification requiring pro-standard playing ie. you would pay to listen to the performance.

So obviously there are amateurs who go beyond grade 8 standard, but you have to think that not everybody can reach the highest amateur "standard" if you like.

[quote=maggiemay,Nov 20 2005, 11:22 AM]

It seems to me that at some point - maybe around grade 2-ish - a degree of independent learning needs to kick in, and those that manage it often take off at this stage. Some children don't seem to make this transition, and find it difficult to move beyond this preliminary level. I suspect in many cases it's lack of REAL practice, but no doubt there are other reasons too. They may quite enjoy playing, but the reality of having to get down and sort out their piece is for some just too much. Then progress slows down and eventually boredom and lack of interest tend to take over and the child gives up.



This sounds VERY familiar! I find students tend to give up before GR3 because it becomes too "difficult" . My other most common place to lose them is after GR5 when it starts to take much more commitment and school work gets in the way and priorities have to be sorted out.


Carol

My feeling as a student, not a teacher, is that I won't get much beyond grade 6 standard on piano due to stiffness in certain fingers - we'll have to see....

Most of my piano teacher's students start when they are in years 3-6, most give up during those years, and a few take it onto high school. Once in high school, most drop it by year 9, 11 for a few. But a couple take it onto 6th form. Some even start in High school. A friend of mine is doing his A2s and has only started learning. Another person in my year started in year 3, quit after 2 terms, along with violin.

Because of this, my teacher rarely teaches music above Grade 5. Mostly does the SAME pieces from 2-4 (Strawberry Flip when that was on the syllabus, taught 11 people to play it and all you ever heard from the piano room is that piece)

Only about 7 people (including myself) has my teacher taught post Grade 5 Music to in the 5 years I've had my teacher. One of her best pupils got Grade 8 at 14 with 139 and wasn't allowed to do a diploma even 4 years later as his sister failed her diploma miserably and she was even more talented than he was.

Another had actually gone and taken a diploma off his own bat and applied for music college playing music such as the Fantasie Impromptu and the Revolutionary Etude, and DIDN'T get in!

One of the girls she teaches is taking a diploma sometime, fantastic pianist.

IrisH - LoonY

The exam statistics here make interesting reading. They show a steady decline in numbers of candidates from Grade 1 to Grade 8, with the biggest drops after Grades 1, 3 and 5. These are for all instruments, but I would be surprised if the numbers for piano candidates were very different.

Actually now I think about it that is another common option - just to scape GR3 and then give up

Definately!

IrisH - LoonY

Looking at the statistics, the biggest drop is from Grade 5-6, which may well be due to Grade 5 Theory requirement. Also, it is around that age (if you started around 6-7) that one may begin to think playing an instrument is 'uncool' and suchlike

I agree with what others have said - some pupils, both children and adults, find to their surprise - after the initial excitement of learning to play the piano - that it is not nearly so easy as it looks, and are not inclined to give it regular practice, so they either gradually or suddenly give up, despite one's best efforts. For a fair few others, the Grade 5-ish stage is as far as they are going to go - for various reasons including the heavier school workload at that time, conflict of interests etc.

I agree with chocolatedog about not being able to predict which students will persevere - some start and you think - wow! - but a year or two down the line never seem to realise their potential. Others begin as 'plodders' but then seem to blossom - often, interestingly, when those same pupils reach about Grade 5 level.

I find that far fewer pupils stop having recorder lessons along the way, and I put this down to it being a much more 'social' instrument - they play with my accompaniment during the lessons and I put them into ensemble groups and consorts from early on, so it's all quite exciting for them. I try to do my best to organise piano duets and trios, and sometimes accompanying, for the piano pupils, but although most of them enjoy that, it never seems quite as sociable an activity as the recorder activities do, somehow.

This reminds me... when I was younger at school, there used to be so many kids in my class learning music. We would even bring our books to compare theory notes, etc. And then... most stopped after grade five, so now my class has only... including me... er... three people learning.