I'm in the process of learning double tonguing. I can do it perfectly on its own but as soon as I go to put in in the piece I need it in (1st movement of Poulenc sonata) I can't get it clear enough and ends up beng really fluffy! Is it because its so high or is it just me? Any sugeestions are welcome!

Thanks!

Jen

Just be patient. I tried to teach this to myself, and failed miserably. My teacher wisely took me through it step by little step - double-tonguing the same note over and again until it was even, then upping the speed on the metronome, then double-tonguing notes grouped in fours, then pairs, then down the scale, and only then up - for some reason this is more difficult. It's not the tonguing which is really the problem, often - it's getting your fingers to do their bit at the precise moment when the articulation changes.
What do flautists do for double-tonguing?
I do di-d'll most of the time, d-g for a more edgy effect, t-k to be abrasive and di-ri for French Baroque music with unequal rhythms - learnt di-d'll first and can now do it without thinking about it - but it did take a couple of months just to get the basics together for the first piece on which I used it. (Which was mostly scale runs).

I use t-k at the moment! Your in Edinburgh too! Yeah!

The double tonguing in the Poulenc is about the worst passage to start on! And yet it is the first time many flautists encounter double tonguing. I was convinced for years that I couldn't double tongue, because that was the first double tonguing passage I was introduced to. The top Gbs are really trickyto double tongue cleanly, so don't give up heart.

There are some nice double tonguing studies around - I particularly like the one in the Kohler Romantic studies book. Keep persevering: for most of us the improvement is very gradual rather than sudden.

Thats the thing it's appartently really good when I do it in everything else just can't get it right in the Poulenc! May have to be able to pull it off for an exam in January! Eppp!

One other suggestion: work on the passage single tongued (ie playing each note once instead of twice) and make sure it is really clear and well-supported. This will separate out the double-tonguing problem from the difficulty of playing that bit in general.

And yet another idea: do the same as above, but with a 'k' throughout rather than a 't'.

And a final thought: try d-g ing rather than t-k ing. T-k is a bit too dry for most passages: d-g usually gives a better sound.

Ive tried the first suggestion which helped with the notes but will try d-g instead of t-k! Thanks

Yep, in Edinburgh. Good to see others from here in the forums/fora- there is so much activity down south! My recorder teacher's wife is a flautist, so I'll ask if she has any more tips next time I go for my lesson.

THe main problem with double tonguing is that the sound disapears. Normally this is because people get so caught up in the tongue and fingers, that they forget about blowing. the tongue disturbs the air flow so you need much more air to try and even it out for a good tone. Try doing it and blowing like a tank next time!!

Thanks for the advice I'll give it a try tomorrow when I practise! just out of interest anacrusis who's your recorder teacher?

hopefully you'll get a PM about that.

I have a friend who cannot physically double tongue - she studied flute at uni... she has a slight speech defect... she says she just had to learn to single tongue REALLY well and REALLY fast

I've never been taught how to double tongue... have tried on my own, usually failing miserably.

Sorry what a useless post... I do sympathise, it's so annoying when you can do something in one piece or on its own and then you have horrible problems in the piece you REALLY want to do it in...

Maybe that would be a situation where trying a different technique could help? Perhaps she's already done that though. My teacher went through all the possible ones with me to find out what would work best - di-d'll is very different to t-k and d-g to produce, but I don't know if it would work on a flute. It sounds as if she's got round the problem a different way anyway, but that must be exhausting to do in a lengthy piece.

Well! I've just tried d-g and it works I've no idea why but it is much clearer with d-g than t-k thanks for the advice!

Brilliant, weejen. I'm so glad it worked. It makes each note slightly longer than t-k (if you single tongue with a du rather than a tu it is more legato), and I think that's why the sound is better. You can keep t-k in reserve for very staccato passages.

So much activity down south eh????? - Edinburgh IS down south!!!!!

I guessed a post like that was coming! I meant to indicate south of the border...
Have you noticed, it is further from south to north than it is from north to south?