Help! I'm having a terrible time sleeping at the moment. Last night I went to sleep at midnight and then woke at 1.30am and couldn't go back to sleep. I generally can only get between 3-5hrs a night and I'm really fed up.

I have music on my mind a lot and when I wake up I panic about everything I'm not doing plus forthccoming exams. I also have a prolapsed disc so when I wake, my back then hurts and I can't get back to sleep.

I've tried natural and prescription sleeping tablets and they don't work.

Any ideas would be gratefully received.

First, to deal with the stuff that's making you panic. Put a pad of paper and a pencil by the bed, and if you wake up and think of something (or if you think of something just before you drop off) write it down on the pad. Then you know it won't get forgotten and you can deal with it in the morning.

Second, what do you do before you go to bed? Are you on the forums until you keel over with tiredness, or do you allow yourself ten quiet minutes relaxing before you go to bed, to let your brain unwind.

Third, what do you eat and drink in the evenings? Too much tea, coffee or hot chocolate will keep your mind buzzing, so don't have them after dinner time. If you can stand the taste of it, have a cup of camomile tea in your ten minute unwinding time. Do you take any medication for your back? Would a mild painkiller help at bedtime?

If you do find yourself wide awake, and you've written down all your worries, lie flat and stretch your whole body, from the toes to the tip of your head. Then starting with the toes and working all the way up one part of the body at a time, relax that bit of you completely. Then when your body is totally relaxed, let your mind relax too. If that doesn't send you to sleep, try mentally repeating your times tables - once two is two, twice two is four etc etc etc. Doesn't usually take long to send me off once I start that, as it's so monotonous.

Above all, if you are awake, concentrate on resting and relaxing, as they are almost as good for you as actually being asleep is. Don't fret about the sleep you're not having, just enjoy being warm and cozy.

Hope this helps

Cheers (and sweet dreams)

Katyjay

I used to have terrible problems sleeping. I ended up goign to a counsellor I was in that much of a state about life..........and a few good nights sleep was all it took to sort it out.

I'm still not a great sleeper, but I know how to make it easier now. For an hour before bed, I have no contact with computers, television or phones. I can read, listen to music etc. Anything that chills you out! Have a bath. I find getting into my pyjamas at this time helps as well, so that when I'm all relaxed, all I have to do is get into bed and not wake myself up getting undressed.

Don't do anything in your bedroom other than sleep and the obvious if you have a partner!!!! Once I removed the computer and tv out of my room it was much better. Stopping practicing in my room helped as well. You need to have that space that reminds you of sleeping only. If you practiced in your room that evening, when you go to bed, you're only going to think about the bits you can't play!

I also have a fan heater in my room. It can blow hot and cold. I find if I'm too hot or too cold, it really affects my sleep. A quick burst of heat or coldness sorts me out good and proper!

One last bit of advice, and it's the best advice I was ever given. If you're in bed awake for longer than 45 minutes, get up. If you lie in bed you will only fret, get annoyed and wake yourself up even more. If you get up, go to the loo, have a drink, or just sit on the sofa downstairs for 10 minutes, you'll go back to sleep much quicker when you go back to bed than if you'd just layed there.

I can't sleep either

A slightly different point of view:

Remember that more than one thing happens when you are asleep. Your body is less active than if you were up, and muscles are mostly relaxed, so some repair and replenishment processes are making more progress. This will continue to happen when you are awake too, so long as you can stay relaxed. Some of the time when you are actually asleep, the brain is performing a sort of data processing task. This can be detected by rapid eye movements and is perceived as dreaming, though you may or may not remember the dream. Adults usually need appreciably less time doing this than they spend in the first state, and you are probably getting as much of it as you need, even though you perceive that you are sleeping very little.

A problem that insomniacs face is the boredom of lying in bed awake. I tackle this by having a radio with earphones (the in-ear type, so that I can sleep on either side if I want to), on which I can listen to the BBC World Service (Radio 4 wavelengths from 1 a.m. to 0530) without disturbing my wife. Other possibilities are Radio 3 and Classic, both of which continue through the night.

I always have a relaxing Classical CD on or Radio 3/Classic FM. Listening to quiet music allows my mind to relax and focus on something tranquil rather than on a load of busy thoughts that might keep me awake. The worst thing for an insomniac to do is to just lie awake in the dark and in total silence. Unless you are a master of meditation, the brain will no doubt become active and full of thoughts and imagery and more than likely focus on any worries and concerns. It sounds to me that you might be stressed out about things generally and so this doesn't help matters. I remember a few years ago when I was having a few worries because I was struggling to make ends meet and I had the same problems with sleeping. Try not to think or worry about matters that are more than likely out of your hands and I would recommend trying something like Yoga/meditation/relaxing music over sleeping pills.

Gae

I've never been able to sleep properly! I will *always* wake up between 2 and 3 for an hour, unless there's something wrong ie ill or something. I sleepwalk, which doesn't help and it takes me ages to actually get to sleep.

Doesn't really matter now, coz I;ve got to the stage where I can do an exam after only 3 hours of sleep the night before! I definitely agree with the get out of bed thing, coz all you do is think "oh I've only got 5 hours left before I have to get up". Apparently you shouldn;t eat after 7 if you can't sleep, so your food has time to digest. Writing a diary can sometimes help!

Thanks to everyone for your advice. I definitely think it's a good idea not to practice in my bedroom - I will try that. I actually slept better last night - sheer exhaustion I think!

I suppose a lot of my problem is that 3 times a week I rehearse till 10pm, so I'm still buzzing and dont have time to wind down before bedtime.

I will also try the getting up after 45 mins as the longer I llie there, the more I panic about how little sleep I've had and I think about lots of things.

I can't play classical music in my room as I think about it too much and start listening for the period, timings and harmonies (Look what A level music has done to me! ) I will try a radio station though with talking - maybe that will help - I'll keep you posted!

Hi Appassionata - very good advice already given but I would emphasise the following:

No caffeine from mid afternoon onwards
Make sure you're getting enough physical exercise - you need to be physically as well as mentally tired at bedtime
Try reading or listening to a tape (spoken word is good as well as music) in bed until you feel really sleepy
Try and train yourself not to have to get up to the loo in the night (it can be done!!)

Good luck
Jen

Unfortunately I'm restricted by the exercise I can can do as I have just managed to prolopse a second disc in my back. I was a marathon runner, doing 2-3hrs exercise a day two years ago, but since prolapsing the first disc, and now the second I can only manage walking and 15 mins max running, so I can't really change the amount of exercise I do.

I feel so much better today though after a good sleep - amazing what sleep does!

I know you can't change the amount of exercise you do, but if it's been reduced by this drastic amount, your body probably isn't as physically tired by the end of the day now as it used to be. Even though you're mentally tired, your body probably still wants to be on the move! Maybe yoga would be a good thing. Gentle exercise.....................don't know whether it would be good for your back or not.................don't take my word for it incase you hurt it even more! I don't want any court cases!

Go for a walk round the block before bedtime - having a dog means I have to take her out (I suppose technically I could just put her out in the garden, but it's a routine we've always had, and I think it's good for me to get a burst a fresh air before bed too.) I've heard that to fall asleep your body needs to lose a degree in warmth (or something like that) so making sure you're not too warm actually in bed I presume will help the cooling process, and apparently having a bath beforehand also increases your body temperature so it will then cool down again thus aiding sleep. (So I've heard.)

I can never sleep either...i always seem to have so much work what with music and school but because i am always tired after school to stay awake long enough to do hwk i always need cafeine...but I'll try without for a bit and see if i can sleep better...

A few people have already given the same advice as I was going to give. I have an mp3 player (I used to use a walkman) with recordings of old comedy shows ranging from the Goons to Blackadder. I know them all very well and if I put the earphones in, it sends me to sleep very quickly. I can only assume it must be the sound of something funny, well-known and reassuring.

I've suffered from insomnia so I know what it's like. The subconscious is a strange place and we end up worrying about things deep down, but which we don't admit to during the day. Perhaps you're taking on too much, or have deep seated worries that nag away at you deep down.

But I can definitely recommend listening to something.

Try taping a speech by a politician. John Prescott's good. Or try naming the candidates for leadership of the Conservative party.

Must go. My eyelids are drooping already!

Steve

Yes....'Today in Parliament' on Radio 4 tends to bore me to death and eventually send me to sleep!....

All good advice. I did hear that something gentle, like a jigsaw puzzle or a bit of knitting or reading, before bedtime will help. Multiplication tables? My favourite trick is to count backwards in French. Or Spanish. Or binary.

If possible, try to get into a routine. Go to bed at about the same time every night, and get up at the same time each morning.

Sleep is my universal cure for most ailments, and I need as much as possible. Eight hours is nirvana, seven is good, six is OK, any less and just don't talk to me. I prefer total darkness, but have been known to doze off in the car (as a passenger!!!), on the train, on a bus

I agree with you there on all counts, Deborah!! I have light block blinds and also wear ear plugs (not to everyone's taste I know but certainly guarantees the best chance of a good night's sleep).

Ear plugs are not really practical when you've got kids - tempting though!!

Hehe - that's true - it did occur to me that I wouldn't be able to wear them if I had to look after my grandchildren overnight !

Thats weird...i always seem to get 6-8 hours a night but even with 8 i feel/look half-dead with tiredness...i always seem to need 10 but thats not possible!!
By the way, to people who listen to stuff, do you just listen and then fall asleep? In that case doesnt that waste battereies?
Lol, kind of solved my sleeping problem a bit, i changed my pillow round so i'm sleeping facing the windows now!!

Or when you need an alarm clock to waken you in the morning.

I can detect my alarm clock through the ear plugs, but not other sounds - can the physicists on the forum tell me why that is?!