I wonder if there is a brass player who can help us. My daughter has just taken up the trombone and is finding that the blowing is effecting her lips and skin around her mouth. When she blows her lips become puffy and dry. And it happens almost immediately. Hardly an encouragement to practise...

She has suffered with eczema for years, and has tried using her creams before playing - but then she slides off the mouthpiece!

Are there any players there who have tips on how to avoid this problem? Will she grow out of it as she becomes accustomed to playing? And is it related to her eczema at all? Thanks in advance for your help.

There may well be an allergic reaction taking place: the key issue is the mouthpiece and what metal it is made of and/or plated with. Some mouthpieces have nickel plate or silver over nickel plate, and nickel is well-known to cause reactions. The least reactive material is likely to be gold, and gold-plated mouthpieces are available, and are not disproportionately expensive. I have also seen wooden mouthpieces too, though these are quite rare in the UK.

I've seen plastic ones for Trumpet...don't know about the bone though.

KW,

Stop her using that mouthpiece immediately! If it is a reaction, it can get worse. I once bought a cheap pair of glasses. The frames were obviously nickel and I had a reaction to it. I stopped wearing the glasses, but too late. The redness faded for a while then suddenly returned as psoriasis.

I guess that silver should be fine, but check with a dermatologist first.
As Storini said, gold plating is not too expensive.

On the other hand, it may just be dry lips.

Don't mess with allergies.

Steve - highly allergic to work!

Thanks very much to you all for your very helpful advice. I've researched gold-plated mouthpieces and they seem to be around the £45 mark.

My daughter is learning through the school, and her teacher had not spotted the problem. Not to criticise him though as she's being taught in a group of 8 mixed wind/brass instruments in a half hour slot, and I'm very impressed with what she has learnt this term. The joys of music funding in schools in the area where I live!

I spoke to her teacher this morning, and he is going to get hold of a gold-plated mouthpiece for me. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

And there'll be the added bonus of amusing friends and family with tales of my daughter's bling bling taste in mouthpieces

Here's a bit more on wooden mouthpieces made by Maurice Benterfa: http://members.aol.com/benterfa/english.htm and a dealer in the UK: http://www.bill-lewington.com/mbwood.htm .

The lips are pretty sensitive organs of the body, and if no solution works adequately your daughter may have to think about moving on to an instrument which does not involve them, e.g. strings, keyboard, guitar, percussion etc.

No, it will not solve the problem. Her hands might be allergic to the trombone itself.

Suggest gold-plating that as well!

Steve


PS Just kidding.

[quote name='Storini' date='Dec 6 2005, 12:48 PM' post='203827']
Here's a bit more on wooden mouthpieces made by Maurice Benterfa: http://members.aol.com/benterfa/english.htm and a dealer in the UK: http://www.bill-lewington.com/mbwood.htm .

The lips are pretty sensitive organs of the body, and if no solution works adequately your daughter may have to think about moving on to an instrument which does not involve them, e.g. strings, keyboard, guitar, percussion etc.
[/quote]


Thanks. I've bookmarked the website so that if the gold-plating doesn't work we can try that option.

She plays piano already - luckily not allergic to the plastic keys But I accept that we may have to move onto something else if we can't fix this. The only other option through the school would be percussion, and I'm not sure I have the patience to listen to drums being practised.


"No, it will not solve the problem. Her hands might be allergic to the trombone itself.

Suggest gold-plating that as well!

Steve
[/quote]

The alternative would be some spangly gloves with fur-trim so that she didn't come into contact with the instrument at all - but she's probably allergic to fur-trim

Full sympathy for the eczema, by the way. I'm currently on a course of strong corticosteroid creams after a course of tablets to try and shift my recent outbreak. Is it just contact allergy dermatitis she has?

I used to practically live on that stuff a few years ago! Sometimes they get rid of the problem completely. But it can also cause worse outbreaks in the future. I'm in that second category.

Have you heard of a product called Protopic? It's not available as a cream yet, only as a greasy ointment, but it's very effective. It's a topical immuno-suppressant that stops the immune reactions just under the skin.
I used a corticosteroid cream to get my skin back to normal, then used protopic for a few days. Absolutely unbelievable!

Because it doesn't interfere with capillary growth like steroids, it's used on the face as well. Price here is 45 Euros, but I guess your GP could prescribe it.

Steve

KW,
Empathy from the heart for the eczema as both my kids suff from severe eczema though my daughter is now better but my toddler has to resort to oral steroids. If it happens again, please take her quickly to the doctor for referral to tests. My kid almost died in A&E from an allergic reaction!

My daughter uses this and it is great - it couldn't be prescribed by her GP though - only by the hospital consultant.

She's 10 now and a lot better than when smaller. We referred to the consultant when she was about 3 and did the wet wrap at night routine. We muddle through with a variety of emollients (mainly Epaderm) and use steroids when needed. I'll ask the GP about the new cream - Protopic - when we're in next.

Before I'm flooded with helpful suggestions - yes, we've tried acupuncture, homeopathy, food allergy testing, and other alternative therapies.

She's learnt to live with it, so the mouthpiece thing is just one of those things she takes in her stride. Hopefully we can find a way round it.

My son uses Protopic and it does help though not all the time.

Andy - you can get plastic mouthpieces for all brass instruments so I should think it wouldn't be too hard to find one for the trombone!

a company called kelly makes plastic mouthpeices - i use one for my cornet - they come in all sizes - and colours - including glow in the dark! http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/

Just to say that I've ordered a Kelly (plastic) mouthpiece for my daughter this morning. The brass supply shop that I ordered through pointed out the the gold plating on a mouthpiece is very thin, and therefore might not solve the problem. The gold option was not surprisingly double the price.

We'll go with the plastic - strawberry swirl is the colour we've chosen - and hopefully that will be that. The next option will be the wooden mouthpieces.

Thanks once again for all the advice and support.

Karen

At least 15 years ago I read a book called "Food combining for health" which claimed that the recommended way of eating, keeping high protein and high carbohydrate foods in separate meals, was beneficial in the relief of eczema and arthritis. I didn't have either, but thought the ideas sounded interesting. I felt well on it and adopted that as my basic though not rigid style of eating since then. However, my son who had been having some problems with eczema on his hands found that it did relieve the eczema, and when he went on a residential course a few weeks later and decided just to eat whatever was on offer the eczema returned.

This is getting interesting.

Firstly, things like acupuncture and homeopathy will not help. They're just gimmicks. The immune system is very complex and can have some nasty surprises.

Your comments about food groups is supported by Mickhail Tombak, a russian scientist who now lives in Poland. He wrote a book (can't remember the title - something about living 150 years). He critisces the huge amount of protein eaten by people in 'civilised' countries and discusses the groups of food we eat, taking into account how our body digests them.

Protein (meat, fish etc) should be eaten with vegetables only. Carbohydrates (bread, rice, potatoes etc) should be eaten on their own, or with fruit.

His reasoning was that the body has to secrete enzymes that breaks down that particular type of food. The digestive system is divided into: mouth, stomach, duodenum, small intestine, large intestine, colon.

e.g. If you mix foods, then the food in the stomach that is meant to be digested there, will not be properly digested due to the other food that is absorbing the digestive juices. Thus you end up with undigested food finally being absorbed and wreaking havoc on the body's system.

Some people can cope with this. Others have immune systems that react in a rather nasty way.

Steve

PS You should read what he says about drinking milk!