Just looked at the FRSM Syllabus, and the Liszt B minor Sonata is on it, and it states that the Recital should be about 50 minutes long. But the Liszt Sonata takes HALF AN HOUR to actually play...that's over half the recital gone! Not to mention the IMMENSE difficulty to play it (especially from memory, imagine the pageturns!)

Surely the Liszt Sonata is not feasable (sp?) to play for the FRSM exam as it's so long?

What do you think?

IrisH - LoonY

Irish Loony,

If you'd read the diploma syllabus, you'd know that one is allowed to specialise at FRSM level. I know of people who have played solely Liszt for their FRSM programme, and got a distinction for it.

Always pleased to discuss yet another difficult piece with you .

Well I didn't THOROUGHLY read the thing, not much need for me to do so anyway

But thank you for answering my question

IrisH - LoonY

It is normal for a 45-50 minute professional recital to have one central piece. The Liszt fulfils this perectly - I have used it thus many times myself.

Quite right Steve.

Speaking of long pieces, look at the "heavenly length" of the Schubert sonatas on the FRSM list. If memory serves me correctly, the sonata D960 is around 40 minutes long with a 20 minute first movement.

I chose to work on D958 instead (a mere 32 minutes!)

Actually, that is longer than the Liszt, which weighs in at around 27 minutes when someone like Pogorelitch assaults it.

It takes me 30 minutes. I pretend that is because I draw out the slower passages. This is a blatant lie

Steve

richter took 29:30 in a recording in 1966 - must have been somewhere around the peak of his magical powers - well his peak probably lasted about 40 years

So your only 30 secs slower than richter, steve

Surely with the huge technical difficulties of the Liszt, you can't really play it excessively fast anyway? I'd die if I saw page upon page of octaves at some crazily fast speed like "Prestissimo molto"

IrisH - LoonY

THAT'S WHY YOU'RE ONLY GRADE 5 AND STEVE IS A PROFESSIONAL .....
Liz

I beg your pardon?!

No need for that, honestly!

IrisH - LoonY

Yes, but I sacrifice accuracy for speed

Shouldn't it be the other way round?

For the record Jorge Bolet played it in 29:18

IrisH - LoonY

Hi, I know of at least two people who passed their FRSM in piano performing last year playing the Liszt Sonata in B minor. One candidate chose an all-Liszt programme while the other selected one of the last three Sonatas by Beethoven to go along with the Liszt Sonata.

THE LAST 3 BEETHOVEN SONATAS AS WELL AS THE LISZT?!?!? Did that person do it from memory?!?! Sheesh that's murder!!

But how though? The Aria from Sonata No.32 lasts about 20 minutes, and the Liszt is 30, that's an entire recital :S

Can anyone offer light on how one can do THREE Beethoven Sonatas (ahem, extensive sonatas) and the Liszt Sonata for an FRSM?! Wouldn't that be WAY over time?

IrisH - LoonY

If you read it carefully it says 'one of the last three Sonatas by Beethoven'.

Oh aye yeah! Whoops! my mistake! *Blush*

IrisH - LoonY

No. This shows lack of understanding of the nature of such a work.

The Liszt is a colossal virtuoso showpiece. Any attempt to play it within a speed 'comfort zone' leads to tedium. I needs to be played by a pianist living 'on the edge'.

The soloist needs to generate excitement. Inevitably this leads to wrong notes. By contrast, the poetic sections need the greatest sensitivity and tenderness to avoid the piece becoming just one long thump.

Not many young players make a good job of the sonata. The best performances I have heard have been given by mature pianists. All of them played fistfulls of wrong notes.

Steve

That sounds like a terrific piece of reasoning. Do you mind if I adapt it to try to defend myself about some coloratura works my singing teacher's set me that aren't quite spot on? I'm not sure his answer will be printable, though.......

Thanks, YetAnotherPianist, for clarifying. The Op. 109 Sonata in E major by Beethoven was coupled with the Liszt Sonata by this candidate. I was told that someone else programmed the B minor Liszt Sonata with Schumann's Fantasy in C, Op. 17, taking up the entire 60 minutes allowed by the pre-2005 stipulated duration (30 minutes for each work). This was a most auspicious coupling since Liszt dedicated his Sonata to Schumann in return for the latter's Fantasy (dedicated to Liszt).

Feel free. After all, you won't be printing his replies

yeah ...you astound us all yet again steve

and its right about the wrong notes - in the richter recording i was talking about, he made a complete hash in terms of notes of the really fast repeating octaves bit in the right hand near the start, and mucked up an ending on the fugue, but it still sounded sooooo exciting.

Especially the "cantando espressivo" section about 8 to 9 mins in...culminating in that long exaggerated phrase!! how does someone compose summat like that?

I recently went to a concert of Leslie Howard, who rattles through the B-minor sonata in 24 minutes plus change...

I once read an interview with a famous concert pianist and he said his best performances were when he played 'right on the edge'.

24 minutes. Hmmmm.

The impression a listener unfamiliar with the score gets is of a never-ending series of staggeringly difficult passages. In fact, this makes up a fairly small proportion of the work. Given that there is a physical limit to the speed at which notes can be played, the only way in which the piece can be shortened to this length is if the soloist races through the the lyrical passages.

I wonder how sensitive this performance was.

Steve

Now this is what I meant when I asked if accuracy shouldn't be sacrificed for speed.

But you know, you answered the question, so I'll leave it at that

IrisH - LoonY

I can't imagine this piece played in 24 minutes.

As Leslie Howard is well known for seeking out old and original/obscure versions of Liszt's pieces, I wonder whether the version he played was the same that is usually played by everyone else?

It's like playing the Minute Waltz in 30 seconds

IrisH - LoonY

Wow it seems the sonata is really popular!

Yeah the FRSM is kind of fun in my opinion coz you have a lot of freedom in programming, I forgot the exact proportion of set pieces but you could fill half the recital with pieces out of the syllabus, which gives you really big freedom and room for interesting programming

You are an inspiration to me. I am probably going to do a recital made up of the easiest pieces on the set list...

EASY pieces?

IrisH - LoonY

Perhaps Mr B meant the least difficult pieces, IL. I don't think there are any easy pieces at that level.

I am not familiar with the piano syllabus, but for my FRSM in oboe performance I indeed found (and picked) a Grade 6 piece from the list.

While on topic of the FRSM what does one do after completing it?

IrisH - LoonY

FRSM2 - this time it's personal

lol

Start another instrument?

Retire?

But, if like Wai Kit Leung (sp?) and you already play another instrument...?

@ FRSM2

IrisH - LoonY

Well, if you've done the performing diplomas, there's always the teaching diplomas and the directing diplomas......

Or if you're into collecting letters, there's the Trinity lot you could add.....And Trinity do theory diplomas too....

IrisH - LoonY

Also Batchelors,masters and doctorate degrees in music performance/teaching/whatever, artists diploma, which some conservatoires have (very few people are accepted onto these from what I know)......

But dont you think it looks a bit silly with all these letters.

i mean, yeah its kool to have Joe Bloggs DipABRSM or Joe Bloggs BMUS or Dr.Joe Bloggs, but when you see people who have things like Joe Bloggs DipABRSM LTCL BA(hons) MMUS PGDip etc etc it just looks wierd!

Yah I suppose, but it would be kinda fun to have more letters after my name than are actually in it!!!

dya think?

Sincerely,

--mrbouffant BSc CEng FBCS CITP MIEE LRSM LTCL ALCM ARCO