Hi everyone

I am in my second year of GCSE music and would be getting on fine apart from the teacher. I get on so well with him until it comes to discussing the exam.
I am not a classical player. Even though I have done grades on piano and clarinet, I don't enjoy them and I would much rather play by ear, work songs out from CDs etc and play the things that I enjoy. So, at the start of this school year, my piano teacher and I picked the pieces that I would play for my GCSE practical and I was happy with them. When my schoolteacher asked me what pieces I was playing he told me they were bad choices, which I didn't think they were because I trust my amazing piano teacher and I was all set to play them. Then he asked me how I would be playing them and I replied 'From memory.' Then he launched into a whole big thing about 'Oh I did that once and it was a disaster.' I felt like saying 'Well just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it can't work for anyone else.'

He suggested that I play some classical music and eventually I agreed. But then I realised later on that Grade pieces don't fit in to any of the areas of study. I asked my school teacher for help and he couldn't give me an answer, even though it was him that made the mess. I have my mock GCSE practical to do on 6th January and I think I am going to have to play a Grade piece because if I play anything else, he will just be waiting for me to make a mistake and will give me a bad mark. I think he is going to give me a bad mark anyway but there are 5 of us in the class and he always gives us the same - 64%, which can't be right because we are all at completely different levels and play different instruments and styles of music.

Also, there is my composition. We spent all last year making 'plans' for compositon which were utterly useless. I kept asking 'Why make a plan when you don't know what you are going to do until you do it?' Well, that was my theory anyway. So I made out all these random plans just to keep him happy and then what he wanted us to do next was write a 2 bar melody. Then write another one. Then write another one. And just keep going. I just thought that was going to take forever and would sound ridiculous so I did my own thing. I sat down at the piano and composed, which according to my teacher, is impossible - you have to have plans. Well I didn't have any plans that I stuck to. I sat down, worked it out, memorised it and wrote it out and I am very happy with it. I am the only person in the class to have more than 2 and a half bars of composition done and yet who gets picked on? Me. So now he is suggesting that I change my composition to accomodate some awful Grade piece into the layout. Or his only other idea was to say my composition was written for something like a baptism and 'bluff' my way through it. Well there is no way I am prepared to do that.

I am completely at my wits end and I have told my piano teacher everything word for word and he agrees it is ridiculous. My music teacher is just so narrow minded and whatever he likes is the 'right' thing. I know an examiner and I asked them for help and they pointed out the parts of the syllabus that says all styles of music are acceptable and they also said that I cannot and will not be penalized for playing by memory. I honestly don't know what to do because it is all getting me so confused and I think I have worked hard and deserve to pass my GCSE but at this rate, it ain't going to happen.

Has anyone got any suggestions? I really like this teacher but he is just so classically minded that he won't even consider other people's opinions. I have been encouraged to do AS Music but at the minute, all I can say is - no way.

It's silly when these people are supposed to be developing you, not over bearing! I sympathise. I had a shocking time with GCSE music, coming from a musical background and far ahead in most things.
I passed but only D. I thought GCSE music was rubbish and still think it was a waste of time.

I hope you have better luck than me.


Kai

Poor you - maybe I could help you with your Music - do you know which board you're on?

You should be allowed to play whatever pieces you want, just because your music teacher doesn't like them, he shouldn't dissuade you from them. The same with playing from memory.

Have you contacted someone like the headmaster/mistress? My music teacher was really disorganised, but if you tell someone in authority what is happening, they might be able to sort you out.

Let me know if you're on OCR - I can help you if so.

What a problem! There are a few teachers like that around. Plans are a good idea for composition, but perhaps it wasn't explained to you why. Forget "baptism", what special occasion would your composition fit? Try to be creative in the title and purpose.

Would it be possible to get your parents or piano teacher to talk to him about your choice of pieces?

Good luck and let us all know how you get on when you go back to you know where.

Uh oh. This is a common situation, so it would seem, my teacher is not narrow minded but doesn't have a clue what is going on. He doesn't even know which option (A or I am doing for the final exam! Luckily we managed to get help from a different teacher, so now I know quite a bit about the Edexcel syllabus. If you are doing this, please do PM me or email me and I will try to explain for you exactly what you can play. For this board, improvisation is an option for composing and performing, and you can perform/compose in a total of 16 categories. The other syllabuses can't be hugely different or more restrictive, the point is that we experience a range of music so if there is a jazz option or similar then playing from memory is a big part of the performance!
See if you can find an alternative source of info at your school, or see if you can get the syllabus online. If you think the marking is unfair, don't worry, in a small centre everyone is moderated externally, so you will get the mark you deserve.
Good luck!

PS - A level music is totally different, so I am told. I hate the GCSE because it is pointless and way to broad but not at all in depth, but for A level you can play to your strengths loads more Don't say no just yet.

Aww, what an awful situation - and I thought my teacher was bad! If you're on OCR, I'd be able to help you too. For OCR, you don't have to compose a classical piece at all - for one of them, you can compose songs like salsa, bhangra, waltz, pavane & galliard, disco music etc, and for the other one, as long as it's similar to the one that you perform it can be anything. Which instrument are you performing in? As far as I know, you cannot be penalised for not playing a classical piece, and it's really unfair of your teacher to mark you down because of it. You could perhaps contact your exam board directly... or ask your piano teacher for advice and practical solutions. In the meantime, the only thing you can do is to read through your syllabus specification and get on with your composition yourself.

All the best with your GCSE! And as bohemian said, I've heard that A Level Music is completely different to GCSE, and a lot of my friends in Year 12 prefer it to GCSE.

An appalling situation. I hear it all too often from my private pupils who are constantly complaining, and rightly so about their respective school music teachers. One has recently been "relieved of duties" for dismal failure to teach musicat GCSE standard.

If only you had the teacher I had for O and A level music in the '60s. You would have certainly learnt something there.
Plus the fact that one could not take O level music without being at Grade 5 in an instrument and Grade 6 for A level.

I sympathize with any GCSE student who is in this situation.

I have two sets of questions:

For musicmad_banana, where does GCSE music fit into your scheme of things? what are your other subjects? are you intending to become a full-time performer or have you abilities that can put you into an easier profession so as to keep music as an amateur or part-time professional activity?

For those of you who have done A-level music recently, do the choices allowed you nowadays include specialising in the sort of memorised, possibly improvised, presumably popular rather than Art music that musicmad_banana prefers? When I was young, A-level music was limited to Classical and Romantic music, and typical components were history, harmony and study of set works, all very academic.

Oh dear, that sounds so unfair! I'm doing GCSE music at the moment and things have improved dramatically (in my class at least, not sure about the other one) from a low point in the middle of year 10.

First of all, I would talk to the examiner you know, your piano teacher and your parents and explain the situation again and ask for their advice. It might help if an adult (your parents or your piano teacher) makes a formal complaint to your school about your music teacher. This would mean that the senior teachers at your school would be made aware of what is going on and they can then take steps to improve the situation.

Secondly, don't get down because of this. You sound like a really talented musician and it seems like A level will play more to your strengths so just look forward to that. We are all behind you supporting you, so PM us or post a question if you want more help/advice.

Thirdly, this might sound stupid, but don't lose it with your teacher. However angry they make you, don't be rude to them because you'll only damage your own position. About a month ago, there was a disagreement in the GCSE music class which culminated in two people being suspended for three days for apparently swearing at the music teacher. Whilst everyone who saw the incident, including myself, agreed that it was provoked, they still had to be punished for swearing at the teacher (although several people such as myself went and complained about the teacher's handling of the incident - not about the punishment btw- and things are now getting sorted out).

Good luck,
hope things get better!

I have an amazing music teacher... when he's teaching us of course. 3/4 of the lessons he's completley missed!
He lets me get on with my choices for practical because i'm one of those sorts of people that become fixed on what i want to do! The trouble his he's extremely critical of me because he's a pianist too..

As for composing, dont make plans.. just DO IT! Lol. I just sit at a piano, make a melody and everything else comes from that. Most compositions fit into the area of 'musical structure' anyway Our teacher made us write out 4 pages about the whole course in september 04 so we knew exactly what areas and stuff there were anyway. Good luck!

A Level Music IS totally different to GCSE - more theory work.

I could cope with the theory.... what else do you have to do Nicki? I really should ask my viola teacher what she thinks about me doing AS level music but what if she thinks I couldn't cope with it? I really want to do it!

Hi everyone - thanks so much for everything you have all said so far.

First off, I live in Northern Ireland so the board is CCEA. You have to do an ensemble and solo performance, two compositons and study 9 set works for a listening paper. I would be fine if I was left to do my own thing.

Although my school is very musical and there are constantly things going on, there are only 2 actual music teachers, not counting all the peripatetics etc. One of them is a complete waste of space and I have no idea how she ever got qualifications for teaching. She is permanently in a world of her own and teaches us nothing, so thankfully, we only have her one period a week.
The problem about going to senior staff members is this: Mr X is my headmaster's favourite teacher. And my headmaster is pathetic so there is absolutely no point in going to him. I have told my examiner friend everything and she has e-mailed me the syllabus but apart from that, all she can really do is check out some dodgy statements like 'You have to play classical music because all examiners all classical musicians.' Sure. I have told everything to my piano teacher and he can't believe how much hassle I am getting but there is nothing he can really do. It's not his problem and he shouldn't have to get involved - I just wanted to hear what he thought. Also, he runs a business and I would never forgive myself if Mr X tried to sabotage it just because I asked my piano teacher to have a word.

And I forgot to say, I play the piano, clarinet and saxophone and the plan is to do my solo on piano and my ensemble on clarinet. In reply to kenm's question, music is one of my nine subjects and I have absolutely no intention of pursuing a career in it. I just don't think it is very realistic and I would rather just keep it as a hobby. I know that for A-Level, I definitely want to do French and Spanish as they are my favourite and best subjects and I had always assumed that I would do music but now Chemistry has entered the equation (excuse the pun!)

I have explained the situation to my parents but although they support me in everything I do, they are not musical and don't understand the syllabus. I think that them going in to talk to Mr X would just put a black mark over my name for life. Oh and I have definitely not lost it with my teacher. During all the arguments I have stayed 100% calm and polite - the last thing I want to be accused of is being cheeky so I am on guard about that. I just ask my questions, explain my points of view and listen but don't get any answers. I manage to stay calm but my teacher does not. It is pathetic. One afternoon he got so stroppy that he started slamming CDs around the place, slagging off my piano teacher when he is the only one that is being of any help and it was completely uncalled for and then the best part - I'm sitting there with no answers, I try to ask him a question and he just completley ignores me! I just thought 'How old are you? Two?'

And my composition would be fine - it is finished and I am happy with it but even though he didn't like how I did it, he told me it was really good and now he is suggesting that I start over to fit in classical music somewhere. I think not. I have compromised with him before and that didn't work so I don't see why I sould have to do it again.

Anyway, that is some more background info for the story but thank you all so much already

It seems that you need GCSE music mainly so that you can take AS level later and also because of what you learn in preparing for it. Apart from that, it just makes up the number of subjects. Bear in mind that for nearly all aspects of practical music making, GCSE is irrelevant: what other musicians care about is whether you can play your instrument(s) with a good sound, in time, in tune and without losing your place in the ensemble. If you can do all that while sight reading, so much the better, if not, you need to have put in some work on the part beforehand. This is so in much of both amateur and professional music, the only difference being the standard and reliability with which you can do these things. Even if you wanted to read music at university, A level would be required, and GCSE would have no bearing.

I suggest you do your own thing for GCSE. Keep chemistry in reserve:* then, if you get a good enough result, you can restore music alonside French and Spanish; if not, there is no reason why you should not do A level music later, at a further education college, if you still want to.

* It has it's own merits, and teaches you useful ways of thinking. Nowadays the ability to cope with both arts and sciences is valued, and it is still not very common.

Do teachers of other subjects get as much "stick" (as they say Up North) as Music teachers seem to do. I know it's irrelevant on this type of forum to talk about French, Geography, IT etc.,, but my private music students all say it's only the music teachers that seem to give them the problems. Teachers in other fields seem to get through the work, complete the syllabus on time, have the skill of explanation........

What IS it with these music teachers??

I seem to be doing most of the work in MY lesson time (at the pupils request) because their teacher(s) can't / won't explain the subject in question.

Recently........At one local school, the GCSE class had to watch an extract from a Wallis & Gromit film (sound turned off) and then write some music to fit the action.
After 3 weeks, the teacher still hadn't called the work in, so my pupil mentioned it to her. The teacher dismissed the whole exercise, saying it was only something to keep them occupied during half term and didn't even want to see it.
How de-moralising is that I KNOW that my pupil had worked hard at producing a very effective piece of mood music, and had even arranged it for duet between piano and clarinet-playing friend.

Are any school music teachers reading this? Can we hear your views please?

I'm quite sure we are hearing about isolated and extreme cases.

Possibly we hear about music problem cases here because (1) it's a music forum and (2) the people suffering are keen musicians who are therefore beyond the expectation/competency level of their teachers.

I had a nightmare maths teacher once (A level Mechanics) - largely because she was lazy and didn't prepare or check her examples before giving them to us, and she got a bit miffed if I pointed out the mistakes in the question before she'd finished writing it.... Maybe not as extreme as the folks suffering here, but a similar effect!

I always have found this strange.

Because I have always been fascinated by the organ from being a small child, I ended up studying it, playing performances, examining it and teaching it, and........here's the point, enjoy listening to others playing, whether classical, theatre or modern electronic.

I am also the Secretary of the local Electronic Organ Society. We have a concert every month by an invited professional artiste, and have done so for 32 years!!

Never ONCE have any of the other electronic organ "teachers" in the area (and there are many) shown the slightest interest in attending our concerts, or even presenting any of their pupils to play in our bi-annual students concert.

Just how far does their interest go - as far as their pocket, if I DARE to say so!!

Tragically this isn't just limited to teachers. I've lost count of the number of times I've said at work "that won't work" only to be proved right when it's too late.

Well, I can speak for my school only, but music is taught in a seperate building, the teachers and peris have a seperate staffroom and offices within the music house, so they have no reason to see what goes on elsewhere. The only one with a clue also teaches Latin, Russian and English and has a form, so she is well aware about standards.
The rest know that music will never be seen by 70% of the school from year 8, and more like 95% from year 10. A very select group choose it, and we are the ones who make up the orchestra and any ensemble you would care to mention. We know what we are letting ourselves in for, but choose to study it because it's an easy GCSE/A level, and because we love music.
Most people don't think of music as a "serious" or "academic" subject, so they don't care what happens, as long as everyone gets grade C or higher at GCSE, or grade B and higher at A level. Inevitabley we do, because we are interested enough to learn the stuff ourselves.


This is only too familiar. All the work we are set is a joke, I have never done ANY of it, and when I tell my teacher he says "oh well, as long as you finish the syllabus and coursework". Which is true, because in GCSE you don't need to know anything to pass...

It's the syllabuses which cause problems, they don't require enough in-depth knowledge, so teachers can't be bothered.

Take a look at this for Edexcel

I had a nightmare for GCSE music - foolish me, trusted the teacher to know what the syllabus was. It had changed for our year, and he hadn't checked or noted the change, so with a month to go until our performing exam we had to learn two new pieces. Not too hard except one of them was an ensemble and trying to arrange rehearsal times around coursework deadlines and revision timetables proved awkward. I didn't do A' level because of this teacher - that, and we complained to our head of year and it got back to him that it was a friend and I that had done it and lessons were never quite the same again.

Good luck - if you stick to the syllabus you can't go far wrong. Your teacher sounds scared of not doing what he has always done.

Thanks Nicki, that was very useful!

That is completely un acceptable. The teacher needs to know what they are going on about to actually teach it. I had a maths teacher a few years ago who was horrible. We were doing Mathematics B (one of the hard level Maths) and the teacher a) could hardly be understood (he had a horribly thick accent Egyptian) and didn't know what he was talking about half the time. We had a really really smart girl in our class and half the time she would be teaching the teacher. There were some lessons where we would have 3 teachers in the classroom. The classroom teacher who basically didn't know what he was going on about, The special education teacher to teach me what he was going on about (I have a disability), and the Head of Department who had to assist the students and to help teach the teacher teach the material.

I'm doing A level music without having done GCSE music...

but I totally agree with the comment about arts and sciences, I do biology, chemistry and music at A level with AS maths and this has definately helped with my univeristy application as a combination between the arts and sciences is not common at all!

that depends on music departments though... i was helping at our 6th forms open evening, a girl came with around grade 5 theory and practical but no gcse music, and they said she could probably do it, but another group of girls came without gcse music and they were told they wouldn't be taken on the course..ok, mainly because they didn't play any instruments, know any theory and presumed it was all pop music...but it's safer to have it rather than hoping you'll be seen as a special case and taken on

sorry I should have made myself a bit clearer! to do A level music at the college I go to, you had to have either an A at GCSE music or Grade 5 theory and everyone had to have at least grade 5 on one instrument regardless of whether they had an A or the theory.

oooh ok then! the point still stands (i think - i haven't really followed this thread) that it depends on music departments, anyway i'll shut up now cause i really don't have a clue what i'm talking about!