I was looking at the Guildhall strings syllabus booklet today and it said a Grade 5 can substitute for a GCSE A-C grade.

I remember asking whether an AB Grade 5 can do likewise a few months back and was told no, not any more. Does anybody know if it's actually different with Guildhall grades? This booklet seems to suggest it is.

If so, my question: would a Grade 5 count for an extra GCSE if you already had a music GCSE A-C grade?

Violinia

In the olden days you could substitute grade 5 practical for the GCSE performance, and grade 5 theory for the GCSE theory paper. Grade 5 doesn't actually count as part of a GCSE any more, what they mean is that the level is that expected at GCSE for the practical paper only.

The only thing i know about this is that i don't think you can get ucas points for Grade 5 theory or practical with AB anymore. The points thing starts at grade 6. Hasn't the 'equivalent' thing always been about the number of points you get anyway? (as in the same number of points as a gcse a-c grade)

Thanks for responses so far. OK, what I'm trying to work out is: with the AB substitution that used to be, was it the AB that stopped it substituting, or was it the GCSE people? In other words, could what I read in the Guildhall (2001 -) syllabus still figure? Or have the GCSE people stopped it from any board (at Grade 5 level)?

Violinia

Thia is what the Guildhall booklet says:

National Qualifications Framework

Graded Exam-----------NQF Level-----------General Qualifications

6-8------------------------------3--------------------------A and AS Level

4-5------------------------------2---------------------------GCSE A*-C

1-3------------------------------1----------------------------GCSE D-G


Anybody what does this actually mean? For example, another GCSE A*-C level (depending on grade exam mark?)

Violinia, baffled

My music teacher said that you use to be able not to do parts of the exam if you had Grade 5 in a instrument/theory. But, he said that a few years ago it had stopped, but if we were getting passes at Grade 5 it is suitable for a GCSE performance.

If that makes sense.

There was a time when the old GCE O level was seen as an equivalent and accepted as a substitution for Grade 5 theory, but when the GCSE exams were introduced and became partly based on modular coursework, the AB stopped the substitution option.

However, with the ABs new drive towards greater accessibility they are now allowing any accredited Grade 5 theory exam to be used; which means that if you have taken the exam with Trinity, GSMD or London College of Music, you won't have to take Grade 5 theory again with the AB in order to enter for Grade 6 (or above) practical.

So

4-5------------------------------2---------------------------GCSE A*-C

meant theory in any case, not practical

and it doesn't any more?

even Guildhall?

Violinia, still muddled (so what's new )

I used to mean both. Instead of sitting an exam or a recording, you used to send in your mark sheet.

Correct

Correct

I'm sure the GCSE boards were the ones to stop the substitution scheme.

As far as I understand it the levels are just equivalant levels.
A bit like comparing the levels of exams in totally different subjects, if that makes sense.

D***n.

And thanks Bohemian and everyone.

Violinia

PS Bohemian, you're one amazing 15-year-old!

Hi Violinia,

Ok, with my careers adviser hat on this is how I understand the above summary. The NQF Levels (1, 2, 3...) offer a way of comparing different types of qualifications. However, qualifications should be fit for purpose. Therefore, I would rather my hairdresser had a Level 3 qualification in hairdressing than an A level in Latin. The hairdressing qualification and the A level are at the same NQF level, but are suited to very different purposes.

As to where Grade 5 theory and practical are concerned, it depends on what you would be using them for as to whether they are equivilent to each other. For example, to get onto an A level Music course, then most 6th forms and colleges I work with would be more than happy to have someone turn up with Grade 5 theory and practical in the place of GCSE music.

When it comes to points, the reality is that the only people interested in the points value of NFQ Level 2 (GCSE/GNVQ Intermediate etc) qualifications are schools, as they are the basis of the school league tables. They make no different to individual students. This is different to the situation at Level 3, where universities have come up with a wide range of qualifications that can be converted into points scores (UCAS Tarrif) that affect individual students as they influence the range of universities that they can apply to.

Sorry its such a long winded post, and it is probably as clear as mud. I think teenagers deserve an automatic university place if they can even try to understand the UCAS tarrif system!

Lis

Or if one of them can come up with a better system

Hehehe!!! Anyone who could do that would be fantastic Trebor - they would get my vote!