I'd say my scales were 'legato-ish' at the moment but not legato. Nomatter how i play it still doesnt sound 'smooth' enough...Is there any way i can improve my playing?

I sort of have the opposite problem.. my staccato scales are more not legato than real staccato....

And I just have one type of scale halfway inbetween the two that I use the whole time

Really well played scales are quite quick and bright. Top quality finger articulation give a staccato-like quality.

Maybe you are really playing them stunningly brilliantly.

Steve

I very much doubt it.

While not daring to disagree with Steve, I take it that your original question arises from the requirement in the higher AB Grade exams to play scales "legato", meaninga true "legato", rather than "staccato" or "portato", or a mixture of both in the same scale. While I am sure that any examiner would be delighted with "quick and bright and well articulated scales", I was taught a trick to play them legatissimo, which requires practice. The trick is to overlap very slightly one note to the next - not long enough to make a dissonance, but so that the damper hits note 1 exactly as the hammer strikes note 2. This means that the finger of note 2 is in motion before the finger of note 1 has released. Have I explained this very well? Probably not. I went to a party last night and I still haven't recovered.

Edward

You could try playing them very slowly but deliberately overlap each sound so that you release each key after the next one has been depressed. You could also do them so that you keep two keys depressed and release the first one each time you depress the next key in the sequence. eg. if you begin with C major, begin with C but keep it depressed while you play D then when you play E, release C but keep D depressed and so on.

You can alter the tempo as you go. The idea here is not for speed but to work on articulation and also really listen to the sounds that you are making.





Edward,

I posted my previous post before I read your post! I agree with your idea although I would let the sound overlap for different amounts of time as well as the way in which you suggest to do it. It's a very good way of helping with legato playing. Of course there are lots of variations on this idea. Sorry for copying you!

According to my teacher, I have the opposite problem - in my legato scales the notes sometimes overlap too much

OK, so ignoring my earlier, light-hearted approach to this problem.

Legato is produced by slightly overlapping one note into another. You play, say, C, then press the D whilst still holding down the C. At exactly the right moment you release the C. Release the C too early or too late and you do not have a perfect legato.

You continue up the scale in the same way.

Confused? You should be.

Playing the piano is an aural activity. Actually, this is true of any musical activity.

So, how do we play legato scales on the piano?

I provided the technical answer earlier. It is nonsense.

We play legato anything on the piano by listening to what we are doing and adjusting our physical movements according to what we hear. If it sounds legato then it is legato. If it doesn't, it isnt.

Use your ears, folks. They are what we play a musical instrument with.

Hope this helps.

Steve

So how do you help a pupil who can play a nice legato sep and tog, and stacatto sep hands, but when they go together, only the RH stays stacatto?! At least she realises what she's doing, but I'm dubious she listens as closely at home...We're very slow at the moment and her usual boredom with scales is exaggerated!

Is there anyone who enjoys scales?

I treat scales like eating vegetables (well okay, not exactly ); I don't enjoy them but people keep telling me they're good for me so I do it anyway.

Violence?

Only kidding.

"Stop dead and do not move a muscle when I say 'stop'" works here. It takes a fair few goes before the student learns to freeze and recognise that she is still holding on to a lh note.

Having said that:

"We're very slow at the moment and her usual boredom with scales is exaggerated!" This is the alternative explanation. She is not trying. I advise against battling with her; all you do is create conflict. At the end of the day, it is up to her to reach the required standard. You can probably use lesson time more productively.

I do.

Steve

Legato I see. My teacher used to teach me to relax for the shoulders, only firm on the fingers, and make sure that your risk don't shake up and down(just move your fingers,and the hands are moving in a straight line). This makes you feel like a robot, but you can relax if you and put your shoulder lower.
Don't know this will helps you or not but good luck!

You would be amazed, young man, to find just how many contributors do exactly that.

Not me, mind. I have better things to do

Steve

erm..... me....

I started learning scales when I started learning piano and as I had wanted to learn for a long time before I got chance then anything was good. That's sort of stayed with me... besides, scales are safe, they don't change.

melodic minor scales do

Yes, but it's a changeless change

not when i play them... it's more like pot luck

Thaniks for all the advice everyone!! *goes off to practise*

Randomisation adds interest to the whole business

i think i actuali have the same problem, but i guess the trick is to just keep on practicing as without practice there is no succeedin! oh! and make sure your fingers are not cold coz in my opinion i cannot play with my fingers cold, as i can barely move them lol so that might realli help loads! but yeah! practice i think is the best way, so just keep on practicing them and your hands will get used to it in time! btw what grade are you on?

It is worth remembering that physical legato is not enough to make scales sound smooth. Even tone is also essential. Lumpy, uncontrolled tone will make scales, or part scales in pieces, sound non-legato.

Steve

8 in March My problem is that my hands are NEVER warm.

i KNOW what you mean!!!!! nor are mine it's such a torture tho isnt it! every winter my hands get really numb and whenever i came back from school to practice the first thing i would need to do is sit at the radiator for hours, but then that doesn't work which is a shame lol good luck with your grade 8!!!! it will be a long time till i get to do mine yet! lol but then i guess it's all in the practice!!!!

Thanks Good luck to you too if you're doing an exam. Thats one reason I'm glad I didnt do my exam in November, my hands would be horrible! And my exam centre has changed from the big nasty church with the nice but cold grand piano, to my music school which is always really warm so thats good too.

This is a really stupid question, but our staccato scales have to be the same speed as the legato ones don't they?...thats hard...

Yes, it is. But my teacher suggested that sometimes I use the metronome for scales and this helped. It also helped me to realise how that the official minimum speed is not so fast and for arpeggios and scales in 3rds and 6ths is painfully slow (but since there is roo to go slower I'm working on slowing down a little for maximum control under stress).

I don't know about "enjoy" but I get enormous satisfaction after mastering a tricky scale, and doing a given scale on every note of the chromatic scale gives both my fingers and my brain a warm-up at the start of my piano practice


Even tone = hitting all the keys in the same way to produce the same volume/sort of sound, or what? Excuse my pianistic ignorance! I think I can play scales (and indeed pieces, at least at the level I am capable of) with nice tone and evenly when required, but I don't know the mechanics at all.

Yes, yes it is

Having taken the plunge and finally decided to take my Grade 8 rather than rely on the fact that part 2 2nds study exams requires me to play to Grade 8 standard, I kept wondering why it is I have not problem with the fingering of the staccato scales and kep trying to miss out my 2nd finger in my right hand for my legato scales.

BTW I love the sound of scales in 3rds and 6ths so these are not causing the same sort of problem.

Sorry I didn't answer this, Sarah; I wasn't deliberately being rude - just did not see it.

Yes, assuming the piano is even-toned throughout, then striking the keys at the same speed will produce an even tone.

Steve

Grr my hand don't co ordinate properly! When ever i get to the top of a scale (nomal, and 3rds/6ths) my timing goes to pieces and the left and right hand don't come together so it kind of sounds like chromatic scales instead And I end up playing in 5ths instead of 6ths or something stupid like that!

My scales in sixths have an unfortunate habit of slipping into octaves if I'm not careful

Steve, thanks for the clarification.

Have you tried just playing the last octave up and down a few times to get the turn around sorted out?
Works for me.

I have...maybe I should try it slower too.. Also, everytime i practise, i can usually get the scale perfect but the next time i play it, it will have just lapsed back into the way it was before.

For practise purposes, try slowing right down at the top to make sure you both hit all the correct notes and keep your hands together.

You could try 'bangy' practise. Exaggerate your finger movements and aim for as loud a sound as your fingers will make. This encourages them to play together and develops coordination between the hands. Playing scales this way actually does something to help develop your technique instead of merely being a fruitless waste of time.

Steve

I think the problem you have of scales not getting right, even, 6ths become 5th and so on is due to exam stress Try practising the scales slowly, then increase the speed day by day. Do not try to rush through the scales everytime you practice. Yes, by grade 8 you should be playing the scales quite fast and even. Just don't mess up your scales yet before your exam. My advice is: Go slower for now (at least a few times, so that you know what you are playing). By the exam time, you will be all right

Yes, you're probably right. Its just that my exam is on March 27th which seems quite soon, and I can't help thinking I'm going to fail scales, as I should know them all perfectly by now shouldnt I? Another problem is that there are so many of them and I panic when I don't get them covered.
Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll try that.