I know we have keys etc but have never really understood the obsession that teachers seem to have with them. would not studies be a better substitute? They just seem to be meaningless torture.

Okay so it may be a good idea to understand the theory of scales.... (yawn). But does thrashing out C major really have a positive effect on my playing?

Because I am told to I dutifully do the deed...... Chromatics in reverse over two octaves starting on any note seem to be the new torture... and the delight of learning melodic minors.... Staccato, legato and loud and soft.....

OH JOY! OH JOY!

Winge over

Forget the scales. Play the music of Bach, Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven instead. You will derive as much technical benefit and enjoy yourself a lot more.

Steve

I personally liked learning scales. I think I must be sick or something. Actually the main reason was that I could rattle through the whole book of Grade 8 scales in one sitting and then claim to my mum that yes, I HAD done half an hours practise! Ha ha! (Didnt like practising you see!) However my scales are all still there even though its been about 5 years since I have played properly. I think scales are extremely beneficial and help you out in the long run.
But as Steve says, they arent the be all and end all of playing!

Is this a pun???

I find that scale practice leads to rapid technique developement. Once I really knew my scales I didn't have to worry about what the music wanted, it was easy to concentrate on mood and other things and just relax on the technique.

I have a great way of working on scales that takes some time but then is fairly easy to maintain.

If you are interested let me know and I will share it.

I find some studies can be real torture. As an adult I don't find practising scales a problem as I know how beneficial they are. When I was a child it was a different story I HATED THEM!!!!!!!!

No matter how much students hate them, scales are an essential part of developing technique. Speed of fingers and fluency - whatever the instrument - only comes after a really secure knowledge of the finger patterns are known; especially with string and wind instrumentalists. From watching pianists practice, I'd imagine with piano one standard set of fingering (almost) fits all, you just start on a different key?? (I'll probably get an ear-bashing for saying that )

Students with a good knowledge of scales and a sense of what key a piece is in, will always be streets ahead of those who shun learning scales and don't really know what the notes are, let alone where they are on the instrument.

Studies will reinforce a key and the fingering, but they aren't a substitute for scales.

Not quite - the complications arise due to the height difference between white and black notes. Thinking solely of the right hand, for instance, 12312345 will do an octave of C,D,E,G,A and B major and minor Even then it's not quite that straightforwards, because needing black notes alters the distance between adjacent notes, and the heights at which the fingers need to operate; e.g. 1231 on CDEF is different from 1231 on DEF#G. The black-note majors all have different fingerings; the black-note minors nearly have all-different fingerings, but they feel very different.

Then there's the left hand .

Anyhow, you get the idea. Hope your ears survive .

Not on the piano they are not, something I understand thoroughly. As the poster was talking about "Chromatics in reverse over two octaves starting on any note " I assume he was describing the piano.

Pianists have other, more interesting ways of building technique. We are blessed by having an endless supply of genius pianist\composers who composed for our instrument. All we have to do to develop a strong technique is play their music.

I understand this is not true of other instruments. Pianists are privileged to have so much genius at our disposal. We do not have to settle for second best.

Steve

Wondered how long it would be before you spotted this thread and contributed something!!! (Oh by the way, I was practising my scales this morning Steve!!!!! Rather than cleaning the kitchen and bathroom floors! Inbetween teaching and hair appointments etc..........)

Well, if it's between mopping floors and practising scales there's no contest....

Steve, I get your point but isn't it a bit like the chicken and the egg?

Heck, cd, even I would practise scales first

sbhoa - no it isn't. I do understand how to develop a piano technique. Really I do

Steve

Not doubting you for a second, honest....

I'm learning all the time

If you're a piano player how about trying a Dozen a Day and then transposing? Quite fun to rattle through and transposing's a good challenge!

I play through the Hanon Virtuoso Pianist exercises, transposing them to all other keys - can get quite fiddly, but boy! does it give my fingers a work-out!!!

I use those, although without transposing them. They are a brilliant workout.

Steve

My teacher, who incidently is very nice, and highly competant, is on a bit of drive with me at the moment.... with the technical side...

Not only do I have the scales at the moment, including chromatics in reverse order over two *** octaves, but she has also introduced Hanon and am on piano studies as well.... Tell about slave driver......

My teacher, who incidently is very nice, and highly competant, is on a bit of drive with me at the moment.... with the technical side...

Not only do I have the scales at the moment, including chromatics in reverse order over two *** octaves, but she has also introduced Hanon and am on piano studies as well.... Tell about slave driver......


:oMy teacher is on a technical drive at the moment... so I have the scales, the chromactics in reverseo order starting on any key., harmonic and melodic minors. Scales to be played loud/soft/staccato or legato or in any combination.

Plus we are now doing Hanon.... oh yes and piano studies as well.

She is actually a very nice person, but my god.... she is on a mission at the moment. But the scales do drive me demented....

I might be the only person that actually finds scales pretty fun. The daily practice/warm up is a bit tedious but I love the feeling of adding a new scale to my memory. I've just finished learning all the minor harmonics.
Although, I did ask my teacher how many scales there were to learn, the answer was not very amusing.. basically millions. You can make a scale out of anything.

There is no end.....

Oh my god that puts me in mind of the cult series The Prisioner.... Do white balls start thundering down ontot he piano when you shut the scale book....................

On piano, I like scales. Every other instrument I despise them but piano I always get this huge sense of achievement out of them.

I basically did my grade 1, got a distinction and then skipped straight to grade 5. I'd taught myself how to play for years so the pieces weren't really an issue, nor was sight reading. Aural, I'd already done a grade 8 in another instrument so that was fine.

Scales however, were a huge challenge for me and to a certain extent still are. I can do chromatics, I can do contrary motion, similar motion regular scales elude me. The first few days after I could finally play my grade 5 scales with correct fingering and fluently were amazing, I was so proud of myself.