I know this has been mentioned before, and I've already talked to Katyjay about it in a PM, but I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone else has any ideas on this topic.

In the Ricordi version, with the cd - for mezzo soprano/baritone, why is the recorded soprano's part transposed up from the written score? Manca Solecita is in C major and starts on a middle C but the soprano on the cd starts on a "D". Does this mean that the female voice, when practising, should start on a D and transpose all the pieces up? They are more comfortable for me in the keys in which they are written.

Why does my voice crack, squeak and shriek when I attempt the bigger interval exercises (such as 7th and octave and the highest note in Manca Solecita? What am I doing wrong? Katyjay says to not force the note out, but to let it float out. But when I do that no sound comes out at all! I have to force to get the sound out in the first place!

In general I have noticed my voice sounds very "flat" - no vibrato, all in my throat - no support or body to my voice. Higher notes are barely audible squeaks. Nothing I have tried has helped. I really don't know what else to try! Listening to the recorded professional versions of the exercises makes me realise how my voice isn't even up to basic classical singing!

Hi Lady Moonlight

Vaccaj is published by Riccordi in a variety of different keys to suit different voices. So, for example, as I have the high voice version, the recorded soprano is in the same key as my copy but the baritone isn't. And I sing the pitch written, which works for me. Some of my pupils use the lower voice versions, and all the exercises can be transposed to fit the area of voice one is working on anyway.

The cracks, squeaks and no noise problems are all related to the way you support your voice. This is what I said about support before. Cracks are almost always the direct result of pushing your voice too hard. This is why you need to relax when you sing, and let your voice come out on a stream of air rather than pushing it out with your muscles. It does take time for the higher notes to establish and settle down - give them that time.

Again, vibrato comes from letting the whole relaxed body vibrate. It takes time to establish. Don't forget, the two soloists on the CD have been doing their Vaccaj exercises for years, you've only just started, so pace yourself. Get comfortable with the smaller intervals first before attacking the seventh and octave.

If you like, when you come to Egham we'll find a quiet corner and I'll demonstrate what I'm describing here. It's hard to do in words, a lot easier by standing and showing it.

Cheers

Katyjay

I used to find the 7th exercise such a nightmare, but it'll come, I promise.

Oh goody. I've read a technical thread in Viva Voice and I know what you're talking about. Yippee.

Thanks everyone

I guess whats worrying me is that after a few years of singing lessons and having reached 34 (when your voice is supposed to have reached its "peak") I still basically "can't sing" other than simple stuff in a low key with no intervals or technique required. Yes I can sing basically in tune and hold a simple song, but nothing seems to be improving about my voice. I am struggling over Voi che Sapete, which my teacher has just started with me. I strain over the intervals from the F - C anf the Topnote of top F. I can't get the note out unless I push it. My voice is heady and squeaky, and there is no body, vibrato or tone to the highest notes.

My previous teacher said that my mind just "didn't work like a singer's" and my voice would never improve to the point where I could sound professional or tackle Grade 8 type repertoire (to the point where I'd actually pass Grade 8!). So I am guessing that after Grade 4 and maybe 5, I'll have to forget exams and just do simple things - thats not what I want to do though!!! My previous teacher stopped teaching me classical stuff because she said it was too stressful for her to try and teach someone who had no ability and it was a waste of time, money and energy.

I really want to know if there is any hope for my voice ever improving to a Grade 8/post Grade 8 standard.

Hi again (you don't get away from me that easy ).

After three years of lessons and aged 38, my voice hasn't reached its peak yet! So 34 is an absolute youngster in my book - no way would you be at the top by now.

Not only that, but I've been lucky enough to have a superb teacher from the word go, whereas you've been on the receiving end of some really bad advice before you got to your current teacher, which means you're having to do a lot more of "back to basics". Now, this is no bad thing if it results in a better voice in the long run, but it's frustrating while it happens. The worst thing about starting music as an adult is the patience it needs. Especially as any other adult singer you're likely to hear has been studying for years and is a professional rather than a novice.

I haven't heard you sing, so I don't know whether you are capable of Grade 8 +. But I don't know any prima facie reason why someone starting singing seriously in their mid 30s shouldn't achieve that.

One thing I'd suggest you think about - why you sing. I hope it's for the fun of it rather than just to collect certificates. If it is for the fun of it, then sing stuff you enjoy (as well as some exam repertoire) and just get comfortable with the action of singing. Music's for life, not just for exams

I guess whats worrying me is that I will never be able to sing the songs I love, properly. I HATE my voice right now. Its tight and squeaky and flat and just feels like hard work. I hate the way I sound when I sing. I can't enjoy it because I know it sounds horrible. I don't just want to wail like a scalded cat in my own living room just for "my own enjoyment!" because I *wouldn't* enjoy it! I want to be able to perform, to move people. I want to be able to sing the things I love and to make them sound beautiful and I can't! I want to sound professional!! The only reason I'm doing exams is to make myself feel I am progressing. Plus I can just about cope wth Grade 4 stuff without sounding horrible. Give me anything more difficult (like Voi Che Sapete or Lascia Chi'o Pianga) and I sound horrendous!!

I've been told I'm just not capable because of "lack of talent/ability". My mother says I should just "accept it" that I don't have natural talent and either give it up or just continue "for fun" (admitting I don't have talent and its just for "a laugh" or try to do basic am-dram stuf and just sing in the chorus (this was what my previous teacher told me). I tried to explain to her that telling me to do that would be like telling me to stop breathing. I CAN'T! Its like asking me to cut off my right arm! My hunger and passion to be able to sing beautifully is a part of me, not something I can "stop". But no-one seems to understand.

I can't do it "for enjoyment" when I don't enjoy the sound that comes out of my mouth!

I suggested to my mother that I might have done better if I'd had lessons as a child and she said that there was no way she would have paid for singing lessons for me as a kid because I didn't show any particular "talent" for singing back then (except being chosen to sing solos at school, but she said that didn't mean anything) and it wasn't as if I was "like Charlotte Church" (in my mother's words) and showed fantastic talent. She didn't think it was worth taking me to lessons.

So I don't know if my inability to sing now is basic genetic lack of ability or if it could have been remedied had I started to sing younger.

I don't know how to use my voice. I don't know how to support it. No teacher has ever really explained this to me. They either say I have no talent or just give me simpler, and lower, stuff to sing.

Hi Lady M,

I'm sorry to hear you're having such problems/disappointments with your voice at the mo. Reading your posts reminded me of myself in many ways, and it made me wonder we might have a similar process? I find that when I'm stressed my voice suffers, I lose my support and it gets tight and thin. Then if I'm not careful I get stressed because my singing is sounding awful, then that stress gets added on to the original stress and the whole thing just gets worse and worse! Could this be what's happening to you?

Sorry to hear you had such a bad start, not only from your first teacher but also your mother's comments too. Mum's don't always realise just how much clout their words can have on their children. And huge great congratulations to you that you're still persevering, and not letting their words get to you. You WILL improve, it just takes time, practice and being kind to yourself - not bashing yourself up because you don't sound like the professionals. I only started singing a couple of years ago, so feelings of doubt and lack of self confidence are very familiar to me, but I think I'm starting to prove myself wrong!!!

I'm planning to come to Egham, so look forward to meeting you there.

Best wishes

Amber
x

Hi LadyMoonlight,

Katyjay is absolutley right, it's all about time and patience. Before I first started singing I performed a piece that had an octave leap from Eb to Eb in it (middle voice here, not up in the gods!) and I just couldn't do it. However persistent work on my breathing and technique allowed me to get the jump and beyond. Now I look back and wonder, what on earth was I doing?? In my opinion it's all about the breathing (and relaxing), so get on the floor and get a feel for how exactly the diaphragm works in phrasing. But it doesn't just happen overnight. It's like yoga, first time you do it you can barely touch your toes but after a couple of years you can contort yourself merrily!

Thanks everyone. I have been feeling very down and frustrated about my singing lately. Having an unsupportive family, struggling with a job I hate just to pay the bills (and leaves me so tired at the end at the working day that I find it hard to get to lessons/practice), have been getting me down. And now struggling over new pieces and finding I'm still having the same problems I had when I started singing (no support, squeaky tone, can't get high notes, sound awful and flat) is making me feel despondent. I guess this is why being an adult student is harder than doing it as a kid.

I love Vaccai studies, they are so lyrical yet illustrate valuable points.

As Katyjay has said, with the sevenths exercise you need to float the note out. Make sure you are standing so that your pelvis is well centred so you can engage all your support muscles. When singing the lower note, keep the higher note in mind, and aim at it.

Make sure you keep a nice relaxed "yawny" throat and support the note with the breath. Have an idea of where you are going to place the note before you sing it.

It may be better to try the semi-tone exercise, as its impossible to keep in tune unless you support each note.

Remember Vaccai eptiomises BEL CANTO or beautiful singing so sing these exercise with your best tone throughout.

Just a quick add-on to Jod's comment about stance - make sure your knees aren't locked or you can't relax or be in balance!

Another question. When I do get the higher notes they sound very "heady"/thin and "choir-boy" like with no vibrato. Why could this be and how would I remedy it?

Try yawning a couple of times before going for them, and make sure you are letting the jaw drop. High notes do sound "heady" you are entering head-register. Have you recorded yourself to make-sure that the notes really are sounding thin.

Try putting one finger behind the cartilideg behind your ear to get a better idea over your sound.