I have just started teaching the piano privately and have a new pupil starting in about a week. She is only 4-5 years old. Where do you start with someone of this age with no experience. Any sugesstions from experienced teachers? Even book suggestions would be good

I assume this is a joke?

Seriously, it will be a complete wate of time and money. Let the poor kid play and enjoy herself for another 3 years, mess about with recorders, sing, listen to music, bang drums etc.

What next? Music theory for the foetus?

Steve

Yes, teaching someone that young is a specialist job. I usually take children on from about 7 or so.

Does your 4-5 year old have a family that is very musical to back up in the week what you will do in the lesson?

Don't be negative folks. louise333 has this child starting whether you like it or not.

I can't teach a baby like this, louise, but some contributors here do. Look out especially for a contribution from lynne.

Steve

I was only 5-6 when I started.

I've never taught this age - but I would concentrate less on the actual piano and more on singing and rhythm games and chants and moving to music etc.

I've only had one five year old start (pressure from parents as I was teaching big sister). Never again! Inexperienced as I was (and still am) I wasn't prepared for such a young student. Don't expect the child to be able to sit still for more than 10 minutes, lessons have to be broken up. Have some percussion stuff to hand - rhythm can be learnt on the sly by making sounds and copying.

I have no idea what books to use, if any. The biggest problem is that most kids of that age don't know their alphabet, can't read and don't have sufficient grasp of the English language to teach music from notation straight away.

Teach very simple things on the keyboard and fill in tunes around them so they feel they are making music.

Best of luck!

I'm afraid I agree with most of what's been said. I don't take them under 8 for piano - 7 at a push. Though having said that, I started at 5 - but then that was 17 years ago and I think music tuition was quite a different state of affairs then!

David

I started learning the piano when I was 4, and 2 of my friends played the piano since 3, so I don't think 4-5-year-old is impossible to teach.

However, I don't have that kind of experience as well~ can't help u T^T

I did teach a five year old for a term, didnt get very far. I used john thompsons teaching little fingers how to play, which is supposed to combine note and rote approach, but I never quite got the hang of it. I gave a set of flashcards to the student, to help with the reading, parents knew what they were for, but I dont think they were used at all apart from lessons. Id say, do alot of musical games in lessons, you could use puppets or something, just make it seem like fun and games to the child, I know the usual "just sit and play/listen to what your teacher says" thing probably wont work. The Alfred "music for little mozarts" books seem like they would be really good for that age group, but I havnt tried them, and I dunno if theyre available in the uk or not. It starts off the staff and moves on really slowly. If you want more information on that you could try here .Click search piano and keyboard-method books-pre schoolers-music for little mozarts and you will get a list of books available, I think there are sample pages for some of them. Hope this helps some bit anyway......

I have taught quite a few 5 year olds-but not sure how helpful I can be as there's a big difference between 4-5 and 5 . I like mine to have had at least a couple of terms of school before they start -it means they're used to concentrating , and also have sufficient literacy/numerical skills to make sense of what I do. That said, most of my friends' children were reading well in advance of starting school, and whether they're ready for lessons depends to a large extent on the child and family. As people have said, lots of games, short activities, don't expect them to sit at the piano for the whole lesson. As far as books go, I like the James Bastien Piano for the Young Beginner-nice clear big print, colour pictures, the first half of the book is a a pre stave starter so they can get the idea of rhythms, keyboard layout, pitch, for a while without having to worry about notation as well. It also moves at a much gentler pace than books for more typical 7-8 year olds and up, but still gets them playing a piece a week so they feel they're covering something new. I'd generally say to parents of 5 year olds that we'll try it for a term and see how it goes/if they're enjoying it.

I'm afraid I don't have any experience of teaching a child of this age to play the piano, but I do have a lot of experience of teaching them music and all classroom subjects.

Generally speaking, a child of this age learns in quite a different way to a child of seven or eight. They learn experientially rather than intellectually and cannot usually cope with abstractions. They also, as others have pointed out, have shorter attention spans than older children.

Having said that, though, children this age are perfectly capable of concentrating for 30 minutes if they are absorbed in their task - therefore the tasks have to be pitched just right for the age and stage of development of the child.

Young children learn primarily through play and discovery. I agree with chocolatedog that it will be beneficial to teach some songs and singing games and accompany them with movements which are appropriate to the content of the song. These movements should initially match the pulse of the song - try to use as many different movements as possible (just because a child can clap the pulse it doesn't necessarily mean that their sense of pulse is secure - can they pass a ball to the pulse? or walk in time with the pulse?).

Get the child singing as much as possible - use puppets to help tell stories and to help the child to sing. Involve and inspire their sense of imagination!

If the child learns to feel and hear and sing and move to music first, he/she will then have some understanding of musical concepts prior to having to learn the technique of the instrument and the reading of music.

I could write a lot more (I have a book waiting in me somewhere, I think!) but I'll shut up now - if you would like any more similar information or suggestions please just say.

Oh - one very good book that you might like to invest in - Lucinda Geoghegan's 'Singing Games and Rhymes for the Early Years' published by the National Youth Choir of Scotland (available from www.britishkodalyacademy.org but let me know if you have any difficulty getting hold of it).

Best of luck!

Hi Louise,

I do have a fair bit of experience teaching this age group, and yes, it can be done!

(thanks for your confidence in me steve!)

The main trick is not to expect too much each week and be prepared to move extremely slowly. You will need a tutor book with nice big print, lots of pictures, and an awful lot of repertoire for each section.... I used to use "me and my piano", but you will need to bring your student away from it towards the end of the book, where it goes hands together.... the pieces get too long and too complicated. I have since switched to Alfred's prep course..... a brilliant set of books with the added advantage that you can get hold of alot of supplementary material if your student is slower than the book.

Ok I've attempted to write a short list of helpful suggestions.
deep breath, here goes........

1...you need to be your student's pulse for a very long time, play alongside them alot, count out loud continually, allow them to play slowly but expect them to play evenly.

2.... Don't ask for more than a four bar tune at a time, they will lose concentration and motivation very quickly when faced with a big piece of music

3.... lean over and point out the notes as they go, it helps with their pulse and also with their reading...... I only stop doing this when they ask me to.

4...... explain to the parent that they cannot learn unsupervised. The parent needs to sit in the lesson, understand what is required, and copy your teaching technique at home

5....... explain to the parent about practising...... tweny five minutes a week (not a day!) is fine at this level

6... split the lesson into very short activities, a child this age can keep concentration for a full half hour but not if doing the same thing for that time

7.... get hold of either alfred's ear and activity training book to match the tutor book, or Jane Smisor Bastien' Listens & Creates, and get yourself alot of crayons. Both these books have colouring actvities, the listens and creates are aural based, and the alfred one is aural and notation and keyboard based.

8..... get hold of either monkey puzzles vol 1 (harewood & waterman) or alfred prep course theory. You might think it daft to begin theory at such a young age but kids this age think they're doing a puzzle book not formal theory training.

9.... be enthusiastic!..... I've never been the type of teacher who does well on dancing around the room and stuff but my kids have a whale of a time because I'm have fun teaching them.

10... Use stickers, stickers and more stickers! Most kids this age are seriously motiveted by the thought of getting a sticker in their book and a whole bunch of stickers on their jumpers to show off with when they get home. Buy cheap and use alot of them

11... watch your student carefully for signs that they're losing interest in their task. AS SOON as they do, finish that task on a good note, amd switch tasks. You can go back to the original one later

12.... use duets in the books to lengthen playing time on pieces in lesson and give added interest to the music.

phew, I think that's it........

I might come back later when I've had more coffee and add some in!

Best of luck, and don't listen to anyone who says it can't be done. I've taught this age group alot over the years, and I've now got alot of extremely good pianists in my student base who started at age 4.

hope this helps

My only problem, even with using exactly those books was that the pupil wanted to spend the whole lesson colouring in and grumped and whined about doing anything on the piano itself.......which is why I refuse to teach that age now - that year was a nightmare and eventually I told the parent that she needed to be a bit older. (Plus there was no support at home - both parents out at work, that kind of thing.)

Hi Louise

first of all, very best of luck.

I agree with everything Lynne has said and would just like to add a couple of extra suggestions:

Try doing musical stories to favourite fairy tales, I did what turned out to be a surprisingly in depth Jack and the Beanstalk with a 6 year old on Saturday, for example the bean stalk growing - together we played slowly and quietly going up the piano. It doesn't matter what notes or how many notes if they are making a quiet ascending sound they are still learning. Then the beanstalk falling down was alot more noisy, lots of black notes and a great big bang at the bottom.

Secondly, give it a few weeks, but if you genuinly are finding it an uphill struggle don't be afraid to say to the Mum that you think he/she is too young and finding it too much and to try a music and movement class for a couple of years then try again The last thing you want is to put them off for good.

any idea whether it was the child who wanted to learn the piano or the parents who wanted the child to learn? sounds like the latter to me. I had a situation like this not that many years ago, the kiddy didn't want to learn, she was there because her mother wanted her to. In the end I stopped teaching her for those reasons.

There's usually only one reason why a child doesn't want to play piano at their piano lesson, and thats's because the child doesn't want to learn piano!



I've done that a few times too, works brilliantly. I used one of my daughter's books, can't remember the name of it, but it had a lot of pictures that were easily transcribed into the piano. Fabulous fun (for me and the student)

What a brilliant list of suggestions - inspires me to have a go at teaching this age group. Although I started to learn myself at 5 yrs old I've never yet had a pupil of this age - at the moment I've got all teenagers. I got asked about taking on a 6 yr old a while ago, and demurred a bit. I might ring them up again and ask if they're still interested after reading your list lynne!!

glad to be of use here and go for it!!

I teach preschoolers music so alot of the 4-5 year pianist I get have some experience from my music classes. The ones that dont struggle a bit more at the start. It is possible to teach at this age but it is really a speciality. Not many people can do it !!

Like Lynne I do exactly the same. I start them on Dozen a day Mini book, John Thompson Book 1 and Ten Little Fingers..... sometimes we add a little Chester too. It all depends on how much the child is taking on board. I used Ling Ng Theory series which involves lots of sticking and is very colourful and bold.
Every activity lasts no more than 5 mins and we move back and forth through activities until the 30 mins is finish. This helps reinforce your ideas and makes sure they can remember what they have to play during the week.

A supportive parent really helps at this age although I have taught children at this age that are dropped off and left for 30 mins and somehow manage to practice unaided and still progress!!
I like to take on 4 year olds that are inspired to play on their own and have spent at least one term at reception, saying that I have alot waiting now and no spaces so they will be about 6 when they start. Most children start about 7-8 years.

My own children started in reception year not so long ago......got a totally different view teaching this age group after having my own kids. If they had waited until 7-8 years they wouldnt be where they are now. My 8 year old has grade 5 piano(distinction), grade 3 cello(distinction) and has just starting drum kit!! , My 10 year old is working on grade 6 trumpet now and is grade 5 violin, so some children are an exception to the rule. It can be done with lots of patience. Just remember if they do get a head start at 4-5 years they can get to stage like my kids and struggle to make friends in bands/orchestra as the children are 5 years older than them. Luckily for us, the boys have strong personality and are tall for their age and seem to just take it in their stride, 2 years on now and they have matured into their roles and been accepted by their peer Having supportive teachers really helps and parents must be willing to contribute to the practice week.

Good luck keep us posted.
Lynne do you teach in school!!

nope, I made a vague attempt at getting involved in peripetetic work a few years back, nothing came of it, and I never followed it up. To be honest, I'm not sure it's for me, I don't think I could cope with the very short lessons with very large classes, I work best on one-to-one. I know peripetetics who do a fantastic job, but the whole prospect of teaching like that terrifies me!

i do work in the junior dept of a major music college though, and I love my work there

It is entirely feasible to start at this age - speaking from experience of our own kid.
Not every teacher can cope with this age group. Most declined when asked, not citing their inability to teach this group, but saying as some above have said - that its not possible and to wait a few years.

Each child is different though, and not every kid of this age is ready.

My daughter started piano and recorder at 4, violin at 5. She was keen because her parents were keen, it was all fun and lots of attention and LOADS of stickers and dare I say it even sweets.

Now just turning 7 recently she proudly achieved distinction at grade 3 piano, distinction recorder grade 3 and merit violin at grade 3. Music is part of her nature now, and she really enjoys it. If we took the advice of the first batch of music teachers, we wouldn't have started yet.

Some teachers are all too keen no way too early but I think it is very dependant on the individual child and family. Glad to hear your daughter is doing so well.
People often say why do my kids go to band/orchestra 4 times a week and practice every day but hey they have to do English and Maths for an hour each day at school at least this is more fun

I started at 4 but only after my teacher had a sort of "interview" with me, and I had been asking for piano lessons for a year before and didn't want to wait any longer.

I teach a couple of 6 yr olds at home who are both excellent students and very attentive.

At school however I was informed on my first day that one of my students was 5. I was nervous about this but hoped they would be the quiet polite sort I had been used to dealing with Not so....

Instead I was faced with a hyperactive girl who wanted to pick everything up in the room, and basically ignore any plea I made to pay attention. It was only on the second week when I brought a tin whistle with me that I caught her interest and we have managed to make some progress. She's clearly musical but I don't think she's ready for private lessons, mostly because of the type of school it is.

In the school I teach at, they adopt a kindergarten system and the kids really just play until they are about 6-7 and only then do they start to read and write. This means some of the 8 year olds I teach have very poor maths/reading skills if any at all! When I compare some 8 year olds at school to the 6 year olds who come to my house the difference is astronomical!

Most of the school kids are doing well but I suspect that the half hour they spend with me is probably more intensive that they are used to in class (which I do try to be understanding about). The school is generally very informal (teachers are addressed on a first name basis by pupils) in it's approach which means I do have to work a bit harder when it comes to even the very basic skills - sometimes I'm even teaching the alphabet or getting them to recognise their left hand from right!

If another 5 year old from the school wanted lessons I would have no hesitation in declining. It would be a different story though if a parent phoned the house to enquire and I'd certainly meet the child and see how it went.

Amanda xxx

I use

Hal Leonard Student Piano Library "Piano Lessons, Book 1"

with the very young. See also the whole threads in which these posts are included:

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?act=ST&f...ndpost&p=185683

http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?act=ST&f...ndpost&p=116833

Also don't discount producing music that hasn't been read.

Improvising on all the black notes whilst you provide suitable accompaniments is good for a curved hand position and makes them sound amazing from lesson 1. Their playing will be in advance of their reading at this age, so lots of improviation is good - the Hal Leonard books have lots of suggestions.

I also play "fill in the gaps" - so I will play/sing "Old McDonald" and then miss out the e i e i o bit which they must fill in.

Also teaching keeping the beat, getting them to bang a drum along with the same song each week until they get it.

Mostly they are doing lots of aural exercises which surround a tiny amount of learning the piano - but how useful to get the aural development pretty advanced before the pieces get too hard.

I have around 10 activities for any student and I ask them which one they would like to do first - we cover around 7 in a lesson, around 4 they chose and 3 I want to cover. That way I make sure they have covered, pitch, rhythm, hand position each week.

I spend a couple of minutes with the parents at the end explaining what we have learnt - as the children have had so much fun it can seem as if they can't possibly have learnt anything.

Thankyou, everyone for your comments, it has been really useful. Well I will take note of some of the useful tips and see how I get on. I think things will beome more clear when I meet the child as I realise no two people are the same.

wow some excellent sugestions here! i have a couple of 4/5 yr old students who i take on for a shorter lesson after their older sister is finished because they begged their parents for lessons and it would be a shame if a young enthusiast got discouraged at not being allowed any instruction or direction, and after all, how old was Mozart??!!
that said, there is a school of thought that if you take 2 8-year olds, all things being equal but having one that started playing at 5 and the other at 7, there won't be a great difference between their standard of play by the time they are 8 because of what and how they are capable of learning, and physically capable of doing so as long as teacher and parent both understand this progress can be made - it's not a reason to refuse to teach a younger beginner.
my sister teaches piano, and her son (now 4) has asked for piano lessons for at least the last year, he now knows middle C, can play his 5 finger scales beautifully, sings as an echo, claps time and wants to play the violin!! the important thing is to have fun and enjoy!

Something no-one seems to have mentioned which affects teaching very young children is the fact that their hands are usually very small and their finger muscles are not developed. It is quite common to see the finger joints bent in the opposite direction when they try to push down the keys. Theoretically this shouldn't happen if their hands are curved correctly and they are encouraged to use arm weight, but in my experience it can still affect the joint nearest the fingernails. I now let any pupils like this use my digital piano to start with and gradually wean them on to the acoustic piano and this seems to work well. My acoustic piano does have a heavier action than many - it might be different playing a piano with a lighter touch.

I've taught my own children from 5 (piano). They could all read well when they started so they didn't have problems with the text(not as though there is much anyway). I used Pauline Hall's "Tunes for ten fingers", (oxford university press).


aluisa

It's no problem at all. I have taught around three 5-year olds and they make excellent progress if you start them on Bastien Primer A. They are specially for 5-7 year olds.

I find young children (and even older ones0 love the Bastien series: they have cool pictures in and they are extremely logical musically. They cover posture, hand position and finger numbers too with pictures and some games to play.

All the best!! I'm sure you'll have no problems at all using Bastien Primer A (though you might decide to use a different tutor), but I would be interested to know how you get on: so do post back next week and let us all know!

The only prerequisite I apply to a piano pupil, is that their hands naturally bridge 5 notes CDEFG.

I love Pauline Hall's "Tunes for Ten Fingers" and sing along to the child playing.

Remember
1) praise loads
2) use stickers and stamps as rewards
3) keep the child's physical limitations to the fore
4) involve the parents by inisiting on a notebook (I don't always use one for older pupils)
5) don't talk down to your small pupil, but use language they understand
6) play games
7) only ask your small pupil to do mini-practise sessions, 5 good minutes reguarly is sufficient.

It may be worthwhile contacting th British Kodaly Association, as they specilaise in a teaching approach suitable for young pupils.

(I don't use it myself, but many of the ideas I use are very much Kodaly inspired)

I'm afraid that I take exception to the phrase "mess about with recorders" - this is just the sort of attitude that gives the recorder a bad name. I suspect that "bang drums, etc." might sound equally insulting to a percussionist. I thought we were trying to encourage serious music making on this site - and the recorder can do this as much as any other instrument if taught properly.

A 4-year old is quite capable of learning as the above posts point out, but it needs a very different approach - the key is not expecting the progress to be anything like as fast as an older child - but you might end up with a better musician in the long run because the basics have become second nature by the time more complex music is played.

I teach a few 5 year olds, and I find as long as you keep the lesson interesting then the child remains concentrated and wants to learn more. Stickers and rewards are very helpful. I use clapping games and singing whilst playing. Hal Leonard's book is quite useful, for singing and getting to know your way around the keys. Sometimes I incorporate clapping the rests when playing a simple tune (a rest is a beat/s of silence, but the child learns/understands how long the beat of silence is for). I also use my own colourful worksheets for note values and symbols, and make this exceptionally fun. Colourful Flash Cards and games relating to these are also excellent for learning. It truly is amazing how young children can learn very quickly, given the right encouragement and fun tools to learn with. I am always amazed that children this young can sing and play at the same time however basic, whereas some others who are much older find it difficult to do both (or even count out loud whilst playing).

At 4 and 5 years old, concentration and attention span are the main issues, you need to keep it interesting and not spend too much time on any one thing (you can always go onto something else and come back to it). I always leave the lesson on playing a tune or half completed worksheet, and ask them to practice/complete this for next week for a sticker. Children love praise and love to aim for their stickers etc. Quite often I get asked by the children when will I get a smiley for that?

Confucius said, "better the child who messes about with recorder, than the one who tinkles on the piano"