Right, I'm currently studying Stravinsky's Firebird Suite with Nat for A2 Music, and have to learn EVERY technique in the score. I obviously know the piano techniques, know the limited brass/woodwind techniques, know some of the harp techniques too, but strings is a whole new problem. I've come across some before and know them, but some (especially the French ones) I've never heard of and have no idea what they mean! Here's the list

Sul tasto al segno
Jeté
Étouffez
Sautillé
Salt(ando)
Spicc(ato)
Du talon

Also the little + in a circle. I know the + on it's own means open and the circle means harmonic, but put the cross in the circle....

Shouldn't your A level teacher be doing this with you?

Anyway: sul tasto means played over the fingerboard, al segno means to the sign. Spiccato is a bouncing bow and du talon is at the heel of the bow. For sautille personally I would always play spiccato so i shall enjoy being enlightened Jete means "throw" doesn't it, a flying spicatto perhaps - I guess I could demonstrate that better than I could play it. Can't remember what saltando is, never heard of etouffez. As for the cross in a circle, no idea - unless you are referring to a coda sign but I'm sure you know what those look like

All of which just goes to show that you can be a diploma level player and play all the standard works in symphony orchestras for many years and still know very little

liz

Liz

He should.....next year, but I intend to sit Module 4 in June and need to learn the stuff by March before the entry dates.

Might the + in a circle sign be some kind of heavy pizzicato that snaps back at the fingerboard? I know Bartok asked for this in his music and used a certain sign for it, but I am not sure what the sign was as I've never had to do it... I guess Strav may have followed his example...?

Clutching at straws?

Violinia will enlighten us, no doubt.

This is also called Ricochet. You bounce the bow on the string a number of times in one bow. It's like a very very fast, percussive spicatto. Examples commonly found in the Paganini capricii. If you want specific examples, I can find em for you.

Grr I don't like this one - it's very hard to pull off. It sounds like spicatto but looks like stacatto. You play it at the balance point and it is generated entirely through the wrist. Used instead of fast spicatto (which is impossible)

Not saltato? I think saltato is played near the tip of the bow, and is a bit like riccochet, but less...violent...the bow stays on the string like in sautille. Someone else can probably do better here.

Well this one is played at the heel of the bow, and is like stacatto but with seperation between each note. Think of it as a bouncing movement - the bow comes off the string after each note. Very common in orchestral playing.

Usually it's "au talon" but same thing I suppose. Means "at the heel".

Never seen that one. Possibly artificial harmonic (place down a 1st finger, place a 4th finger a perfect 4th above very lightly - see Monti's Czardas for good example).

Heh, not all of them but a few. Hope it helps. As I say, if you want listening examples, I can provide!

I JUST REMEMBERED!!!!!

I think a cross in a circle MIGHT be left hand pizz - it does mean that in 1 piece I played...

Nope, it's bowed at this point

it's not seeing it in context that does it, isn't it? I'm sure i'd know exactly what that one meant if I saw it

Liz

The + I believe *is* left hand pizz (but as you say out of context is a little difficult to say for certain) the circle might be an o for open string, which is easier to left hand pizz than a stopped string. It will be shown as arco as you left hand pizz (usually) while still bowing, otherwise you might as well right hand pizz which is darn sight easier.

See Pag caprice 24 var 9 where there are up and down bows in between left hand pizz.

I'm afraid that it's bowed at the points where it's got this wierd symbol. I'll draw it out and put a picture of it on my webpage if anyone wants to know what I'm on about?

I think the fact that it's arco at the point where you see that symbol probably suggests even more that Jane & co are right and it's left hand pizz.

OH SO CONFUSING

I would agree with Sarah, Jane, Bohemian and co and say that the + represents left hand pizzicato.

But it's in a little circle, and the orchestra bows at the points of the symbol occuring

A viola part has this performance direction

sffp subito sul tasto al segno then the + in a circle

Left hand pizz WILL be used with bowing (are you aware that arco and bowed mean the same thing? Because I can understand the confusion if you are not)

Normal pizz is with the right hand (you have done some viola or violin haven't you? Enough to know how to hold it? so imagine you are holding a violin) - often having put down the bow. It's by far the easiest way to pizz, gives plenty of freedom of movement and you can pizz in a place which easily gives a good sound.

Left hand pizz is donw with the hand that hold the violin. Much harder and therefore only used when right hand pizz is not going to work - so when is that likely to happen? When the right hand is otherwise occupied, for example, when it's bowing. So if there's a random pizz in the middle of a bowed section, chances are it's going to have to be done with the left hand.

OK?

If you're still confused, go look it up on google. My connection's too slow to see the vid, but this for instance apparently has footage of left hand pizz.

http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/thesoundexch...g_movie_id=1268

If you saw the Max Vengerov programme last year, he played a piece by Bazzini (think I spelled it right...!?) which was a very good example of left hand pizz while the right hand is busy doing something else, and where the pizz happens in and around the arco notes.

Subito means suddenly

The + above a note is definitely left hand pizz - just found it on several pages. Difficult to say, without seeing it, what is meant by combining it with a circle.

Snap or Bartok pizz is apparently a small circle with a line through the top, though I just managed to lose the page where I found this so I hope I remembered it right.

Last thing: surely if you listen to the music and follow along with the score, you should have a fair idea of what is going on? Follow the part and have a listen: it will probably make it much easier to work out, as the different between pizz and harmonics and arco and the other things which it could possibly mean shouldn't be too hard to hear once you have an idea what you're looking for and as you have the score so you can have a really good idea of exactly where and in what part you are listening for something.

It's far more difficult for people to help you when they cannot physically see what you're asking about than it would be for you to take the possibilities away and listen/look to narrow down from the possible answers what it actually means.

It's not above a note, it's written along with the performance directions

Étouffez (damp or stiffle) is a common harp indication often found in pauses, for left hand octaves, or for single note passages to clear up the resonance of the strings. I assume it means something similar to other instruments. The associated symbol (just to confuse matters) is a cross in a circle (either between the staves or more usually below the LH part and medium sized, about half the height of the stave and sometimes in pairs then meaning use both hands and really shut the instrument up!).

However, sffp subito sul tasto al segno then the + in a circle simply means play sul tasto until you see this sign and then go back to normal. I assume the sign appears again a little later on in the viola part by itself.

In which case I reckon erard is right... I was wondering that when you posted the whole little sentence.

You really do need to put this stuff in context if you want people to be able to help you - it's very difficult to say "it means this or that" unless you actually show it, or describe it very accurately...

ps> also, use google... many of the things that you ask can be solved with a little intelligent sleuth work.

and here's me thinking that when he wrote étouffez he meant 'if you can't play it, étouff it'.

Thank you erard

Sorry Sarah

No worries: just use google, because it's a good resource.