Hi everyone.

I have not been playing the Violin very long but have had 2 teachers, the first was with a class and that did not suit me as there were some very elderly students (late 70's) and the lesson seemed to just revolve around their difficulties as the rest of us stood patiently waiting and I found that there was painfully little progress made every week.

Now I have a brilliant tutor and am being taught 1 to 1 but what is puzzling me is that both of the tutors have given me different advice as to the thumb positions on the bow. The first one said that the left thumb should be bent and placed in a verticle position on the side of the neck/fingerboard of the Violin whilst the right hand thumb should be bent with the thumb touching point of the frog just above where the horse hair emerges.

My new tutor taught me that the rule is 'left thumb straight and right thumb bent': the left thumb being place in a straight position to the side of the fingerboard near the end (in first position) and the left thumb bent with the tip touching the leather grip.

Please could you give me your knowledge on this, I know there are strict rules as to how to position the fingers but are there a few choices to which one can adopt?

Right thumb definitely bent.

Left thumb will depend what you're doing (position, vibrato, etc)and I wouldn't think there is a hard and fast rule here.

Try watching some videos (or better still live concerts) of top class players to see what they do, and how fluid their hands are.

Any other views?

As long as your left hand isn't gripping, you're probably doing it ok. Left thumb position is quite a personal thing and depends a lot on the shape of the violin, and what you're playing. Just be really loose with your thumb. It will help you a lot when you start using positions.

I have my right thumb bent and my left hand very slightly bents o it's just touching the side of the neck, what ever way your most comfortable, but you don't want your left thumb fully straight and not bent at all!

Many thanks for your help and comments, much appreciated.

But just one other thing though, the positioning of the right thumb, where do you place it on the bow; with the tip of it touching the leather grip, on the foremost position of the frog as described above or somewhere else???

I am verrrrrry interested to know this!!!

Ok I hope I haven't misread your question but I found this diagram:



Im always told to keep my thumb bent, and the tip of it rests inbetween the pad and the frog (the wooden bit that separates them). Although I have to say, the gap between the pad and frog on my bow is bigger than that in the picture. I don't think it sound be right over touching the leather pad bit, but as long as its nearer the frog than the silver part you'll be ok!
I just tried putting my thumb so that the tip of it was still touching the end of the frog and it felt really uncomfy and restricted. I don't think it's meant to be there- good luck!

Right thumb bent, for sure. I wouldn't want to hazard an opinion on the left hand as I know my left hand position isn't that good...

Same! I think as long as it's relaxed you should be ok. Sometimes I tense up a lot and my lef thumb hurts a LOT as a result.

Brilliant, many thanks again to you all for your comments.

If there are any other folk here would like to share their views, experiences and techniques it would be most welcome too.

The right thumb should definitely be bent when playing at the frog - it does tend to straighten out somewhat when you're playing at the point end of the bow, though. But as a rule, it should be relaxed and bent most of the time otherwise your wrist will necessarily stiffen up, which is highly undesirable. The part of the thumb that makes contact with the leather grip thing is the top right-hand corner of the thumb nail.

As for the left thumb, there are several schools of thought. Some people think the thumb should be opposite the first finger (in first postition in a sharp key), some think opposite the second finger (ditto) and others think somewhere between the two.

I think the best way is to drop your arm loosely by your side and observe the position your thumb takes. That is the basic position it should take on the neck of the violin - anything else will cause tension. However, at the same time it shouldn't take any fixed position at all really but be free enough to move around as and where required. One thing it shouldn't do is squeeze, which causes tension, or bend backwards (ditto). However, I've observed a lot of top players on video and noticed their thumbs bending backwards - it does seem inevitable at times but should be avoided as a rule.

A good way to prevent the thumb squeezing is to practise with the scroll against a wall and play with the thumb about an inch away from the neck, so that you learn to use the strength of the base joints of the fingers rather than the thumb as a counter-pressure thing. It's a difficult exercise but it pays dividends if you can keep it up as a daily workout for a while.

Violinia

Thank you Violinia for your very concise information of the thumb positions, this has clarified my confusion on the matter and is most helpful indeed.

Thanks again to everyone for your time, much appreciated.

The size of your hands will dictate some of the positions at any particular moment, but as a rule, right thumb bent, left thumb never grips it just rests lightly on the side of the violin neck.

First four fingers on the right hand should drop loosely over the bow stick with the second and third over the frog of the bow. Fourth finger relaxed and bent, resting on the top of the bow stick. The fourth finger should be used as a soft counterbalance for controlling the bow angle. Don't let it straighten out or this will create huge amounts of tension in the right hand and wrist.

Thats very interesting and a great help thanks Amanda.

I am now putting the ideas above into my daily practice